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Thanks for keeping this conversation civil and not resorted to personal attacks and vitriol. </sarcasm>[

Fair enough, we should. I have some scars from the TSLA Roundtable and it spills over occasionally. I apologize.

I believe I've already covered at length what I feel I was misled about. Specifically, the marketing of PUP.

I take full responsibility of my decisions, thank you. Of course I didn't have to buy the car. I could have just waited for the dust to settle more. But then it I was under considerable pressure to make a purchase decision quickly as a I risked losing the FUSC offer, I was being constantly hounded regularly with phone calls and emails to buy. Or how about the simple fact that I waited nearly 3 full years for this car and at no point prior did I complain, whine or bitch about how long it was taking.

I made several attempts to work with Tesla and correct my mistake. I called and e-mailed my Delivery Specialists nearly every day for two weeks without a single response after I took delivery of the car. I was ready to return the car within days of me having received it. I was trying to be patient. So I waited for them to respond. But their lack of response made it too late for me to take action.

I think you should judge people less, listen more.

Well you say you could have waited and you do take responsibility, but still attribute it to pressure. Look I understand the time constraints, I also jumped at the performance model partially because I thought it gave me the best chance of getting a car this year, and the $9500 of tax breaks that entailed. as well as being more than ready to shed my then current car and drive something new and unique. Much of my decision making was based on less than rational thinking, if I'm honest. But I also really wanted the cool wheels and the fastest model. We use whatever we want to rationalize our decisions AFTER we made them.

With hindsight, knowing everything I know now, I might have waited. And I think we've all lamented it to a greater or lesser extent, my very first post in this thread said "it immediately feels like a kick in the balls".

Where you lost me in the prior two posts, and some others, is where you imply that it's now incumbent upon Tesla to make things right, and they 'owe' people something in this situation. A $5k refund in exchange for the free supercharging (which is no longer offered) is more than most companies would (and have) offered in the past.

Again, I think people who bought FSD years ago and have nothing to show for it, or people who bet on a $35k model with Federal Tax credits (as was boasted in 2016) should feel far more aggrieved than those of us who bought the premium cars and actually got what we paid for and agreed to. It does sound like entitlement, although I am sure you've worked just as hard for your purchase as I have, and anyone else. It wasn't a personal judgement, it was a behavioral observation.

In general yes I should listen more and judge less, that's good advice to anyone.
 
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Lowering the price in line with the tax credit phase out would be a really good strategy. It would maintain sales and not devalue the car.

That was my initial argument. Tesla hung themselves for no reason.

Force bundle PUP - raise P3- price by 2500-3500

Next year, drop the whole thing by 3750. We would have had nothing to discuss for days.

Of course early adopters would of still felt screwed but at least lube was used.
 
This whole thing is a *sugar* show. I understand this guys perspective.

Indian giver - Wikipedia

BTW there's no less offensive way to describe Musk's offer. LOL

https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-less-offensive-term-than-Indian-giver

1.) Free Ludicrous software unlock for pre price cut people.
2.) Charge $5,000 for the option for new purchases.

We cool, and we are done? What say you Tesla? :D

View attachment 348412


5K refund AND free lifetime supercharging. I knew some of 3P owners would push it harder.

Can't wait until what Tesla will say.
 
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Fair enough, we should. I have some scars from the TSLA Roundtable and it spills over occasionally. I apologize.
Accepted. Thank you.
Well you say you could have waited and you do take responsibility, but still attribute it to pressure. Look I understand the time constraints, I also jumped at the performance model partially because I thought it gave me the best chance of getting a car this year, and the $9500 of tax breaks that entailed. as well as being more than ready to shed my then current car and drive something new and unique. Much of my decision making was based on less than rational thinking, if I'm honest. But I also really wanted the cool wheels and the fastest model. We use whatever we want to rationalize our decisions AFTER we made them.

With hindsight, knowing everything I know now, I might have waited. And I think we've all lamented it to a greater or lesser extent, my very first post in this thread said "it immediately feels like a kick in the balls".
Agreed and in hindsight I would have just bought PUP in the first place. They would have gotten an extra $5K from me and honestly I wouldn't be nearly as upset as I am now. In fact, they'd probably keep the $5K because I'd rather have FUSC than not.
Where you lost me in the prior two posts, and some others, is where you imply that it's now incumbent upon Tesla to make things right, and they 'owe' people something in this situation. A $5k refund in exchange for the free supercharging (which is no longer offered) is more than most companies would (and have) offered in the past.

Again, I think people who bought FSD years ago and have nothing to show for it, or people who bet on a $35k model with Federal Tax credits (as was boasted in 2016) should feel far more aggrieved than those of us who bought the premium cars and actually got what we paid for and agreed to. It does sound like entitlement, although I am sure you've worked just as hard for your purchase as I have, and anyone else. It wasn't a personal judgement, it was a behavioral observation.
You're probably right about this. I can only speak to my experience with what's happening right now. I do know however that in the past people have complained just as we are and Tesla's has done something about it. By saying nothing, we get nothing.

I actually found the whole recent Tesla privatization scandal to be exaggerated and not worthy of so much attention but at the end of the day, another tweet was made, people made financial decisions based on that tweet and now there's a class action lawsuit against the company and an SEC investigation into the matter. I could just as much argue people need to take responsibility for their stock market actions but there was a clear misrepresentation of facts there. I don't see this situation as much different honestly. Honestly I can see it either way; but as the person who is directly affected by the tweets this time around, its hard not to be the upset one.

For now, I'll continue to be patient and hope that Tesla does us a solid and gives us refunds or free upgrades.
 
I do know however that in the past people have complained just as we are and Tesla's has done something about it. By saying nothing, we get nothing.

True, and I may very well benefit from that in the future, so I'll certainly bear that in mind as I sit here throwing rocks... ;)

I actually found the whole recent Tesla privatization scandal to be exaggerated and not worthy of so much attention but at the end of the day, another tweet was made, people made financial decisions based on that tweet and now there's a class action lawsuit against the company and an SEC investigation into the matter. I could just as much argue people need to take responsibility for their stock market actions but there was a clear misrepresentation of facts there. I don't see this situation as much different honestly.

Well I was actually one of the people saying Elon should not have made that tweet, given what he knew and that he hadn't discussed it with anyone within the company. He left himself (and Tesla) open to attack and possible sanction from the SEC. It was a mild rational (not to mention accurate) comment, which earned me about 47 downvotes and a lot of abuse. TSLA Roundtable is brutal.

Even so, I also called out personal responsibility when it comes to investing - first information is rarely the best information - but in a polarized forum (kind of like our politics) moderation is attacked by both sides.

Nice post though, sorry for the hostility earlier.
 
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Well I was actually one of the people saying Elon should not have made that tweet, given what he knew and that he hadn't discussed it with anyone within the company. He left himself (and Tesla) open to attack and possible sanction from the SEC. It was a mild rational (not to mention accurate) comment, which earned me about 47 downvotes and a lot of abuse. TSLA Roundtable is brutal.

Of course that tweet was dumb. The distance between Elon's IQ and his EQ is as far as Earth is from Mars.

Regarding blunt-gate - Joe Rogan even WARNED his ass, you sure shareholders are going to be ok with you smoking that blunt in front of them?

Funding secured = dumb
Waging war against British exparts in Thailand = dumb
Smoking a blunt on video = dumb
Attacking the SEC = dumb
Attacking the SEC AGAIN = dumb

Does not surprise me at all people downvoted you. Can't question his divinity at all. :)
 
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I don't think Tesla did anything wrong by including the PUP package for free. They have the right to change the price. Look at what GM did with the Volt, they just straight up cut the price by $5k at one point! I bet no previous buyers got money back from GM when that happened. It seems like people know that they can Tweet something at Elon and they're taking advantage of him.

Considering that the free supercharging will probably amount to a couple thousand dollars over the period that I own the car I'm not even sure I'll put in the request. We're talking about less than 5% of the price (when you factor in the free supercharging). It's almost worth the $ to be able to tell people that charging is free, and not have to worry about cost of it. We all paid $11k for a faster 0-60, it's not like we're starving here.

I'm more happy to hear that I'm getting track mode on a P3D- than mad about anything.
 
Getting a compromise as good will for something they didn't owe you a damn dime for? Get real. I literally feel a sense of disgust at this thread.

It's a *sugar* show because Tesla didn't plan for consumer reaction, not that Musk isn't being generous.

I said I understand where he is coming from, not that I agree. It's difficult to argue with someone and tell them how they "should feel".

You should see my other posts before taking one paragraph out of context.
 
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Getting a compromise as good will for something they didn't owe you a damn dime for? Get real. I literally feel a sense of disgust at this thread.
I am right there with you, the entitlement is disgusting. Some people are still upset, and trying to figure out how they squeeze this opportunity for more.

Goods change in cost, get over it. They might be cheaper for someone else, especially in a tech market, where things command a premium when released but slowly drop in cost as the market changes.
Only mistake Tesla (Elon) made is capitulating to the pressure. The only ones entitled to a price adjustment are those who haven't taken delivery yet (or perhaps those to that are waiting on repairs but that's a slippery slope). Everyone in question getting a goodwill adjustment, which is nice but I worry has set a bad precedent.

It seems what they were trying to do is increase sales of P3D by accepting a lower margin, and I commend that. In my opinion, refunds are waaaayyyy too far for folks who have had the car and enjoyed it already.
 
I still doubt p3d- cars will get 5k too which is why many people are still upset I think. If anyone actually gets 5k I don't think they will be upset.

If any existing performance owners get offered the deal all of them should *I think* else it's a worse slap in the face... that said, I'm not 100% all existing owners should get that <ducks>
 
Getting a compromise as good will for something they didn't owe you a damn dime for? Get real. I literally feel a sense of disgust at this thread.
Just because they don't owe us anything doesn't mean that we are happy with the $1000 a day extra depreciation. I feel like this is more about customers (lots of new ones) being happy with their first tesla purchase they waited forever for. The whole reservation thing was terrible on model 3, and those that waited it out are now paying more for their cars than people who purchased without reservations for 1-2+ years. Also lots of us have subpar cars that still need work to be completed and this is another depreciation before out cars are fully delivered (meaning all the Due Bill things have been taken care of).

Look no one is happy when they buy something and a week later it is $5000 less. No One.
I am right there with you, the entitlement is disgusting. Some people are still upset, and trying to figure out how they squeeze this opportunity for more.

Goods change in cost, get over it. They might be cheaper for someone else, especially in a tech market, where things command a premium when released but slowly drop in cost as the market changes.
Only mistake Tesla (Elon) made is capitulating to the pressure. The only ones entitled to a price adjustment are those who haven't taken delivery yet (or perhaps those to that are waiting on repairs but that's a slippery slope). Everyone in question getting a goodwill adjustment, which is nice but I worry has set a bad precedent.

It seems what they were trying to do is increase sales of P3D by accepting a lower margin, and I commend that. In my opinion, refunds are waaaayyyy too far for folks who have had the car and enjoyed it already.

I had mine for 9 days when this was announced, a whole 500 miles on the car since I was gone for 3 of those days and none of the Delivery repairs have even been performed. If I had rejected the car (again) I would have a 5k nicer car. My fault for accepting the sub par car, and this is my reward for it? No only do I get a used or rejected car but I also take a $5500 hit before it's even had delivery issues fixed? Do all the people who have not had their cars delivered deserve the $5000 then? It's not like you get to pick when you get the car.

I guess if I keep rejecting cars that makes me deserve the $5000, but if I agreed to work with tesla on the issues then....

For the love of all things holy, can we ever dispense with P3D MINUS ... sigh,,, call my car an AWD+ since that is more accurate... maybe I just need to change my sig to that..

:oops:
There is only a P3D- and P3D now. There is no longer a P3D and P3D+
 
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Just because they don't owe us anything doesn't mean that we are happy with the $1000 a day extra depreciation. I feel like this is more about customers (lots of new ones) being happy with their first tesla purchase they waited forever for. The whole reservation thing was terrible on model 3, and those that waited it out are now paying more for their cars than people who purchased without reservations for 1-2+ years. Also lots of us have subpar cars that still need work to be completed and this is another depreciation before out cars are fully delivered (meaning all the Due Bill things have been taken care of).

If your concern is depreciation, then buying a car was your first mistake. Secondly $5000 off new price is not $5000 off depreciated price, even if you were to sell the car immediately. But furthermore, what are you going to do when they announce Ludicrous mode on P3D, or likewise any other improvement? Any improvement going into production now effectively depreciates your car.
 
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If your concern is depreciation, then buying a car was your first mistake. Secondly $5000 off new price is not $5000 off depreciated price, even if you were to sell the car immediately. But furthermore, what are you going to do when they announce Ludicrous mode on P3D, or likewise any other improvement? Any improvement going into production now effectively depreciates your car.

Obviously there will be improvements in the future, but this is a slap in the face for the people that waited years with reservations, then months and months to receive their cars. And yes this is an additional automatic 5k depreciation. 5k is allot of money to some of us, but if you don't mind flushing 5k down the toilet and getting a sub-par vehicle then you probably have allot more money than the rest of us.
 
Obviously there will be improvements in the future, but this is a slap in the face for the people that waited years with reservations, then months and months to receive their cars. And yes this is an additional automatic 5k depreciation. 5k is allot of money to some of us, but if you don't mind flushing 5k down the toilet and getting a sub-par vehicle then you probably have allot more money than the rest of us.

You flushed away most of the purchase price of the car simply by completing the deal. You lost 20% on day 1.

If the vehicle is subpar return it, lemon it, sell it. Pick one.
 
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