Performance Upgrade Price Change!

[Knightshade]

If track mode is indeed so reliant on specific hardware instead of relying on a closed feedback loop sensor approach then I believe it is trash.

You're welcome to believe anything you like of course. It doesn't make it true.


This is extra funny in that you're now telling us it's "trash" because the software isn't "general" enough.

But the cooling software is ALSO trash because it's too general and can't keep up with you driving like a maniac on the street...

Therefore you need track mode, which explicitly says it's not for street use in order to use it on the street.

Just think, if its like you say then no one with a P of any kind could change any hardware. You couldn't change the calipers, pads, rotors, suspension, wheels, tires, because if the system is that brittle it would break the moment anything superficial like that was changed.

I do expect they don't anticipate you using non-OEM brakes, so they can program to the heat capacity which is a known quantity (and there's no sensors measuring those to feedback from)

Tires you can change all day long since there are sensors to feedback traction data to the system.

. But we have proof that their design approach is sound by the fact that the odometer re-calibrates itself with GPS when you change the diameter of your tires.

Do we?

I've seen a couple folks say they "heard" it does that- but every time I ask if anyone has direct experience that is does that it's nothing but crickets.

At least one wheel vendor specifically said he wasn't aware it does that and recommends staying within 3% of stock diameter to not throw anything off in fact.

But certainly if you can link me to direct evidence they car does this I'd love to see it.

The other point is that some of Track Mode is not even based on different HW. For example the extra cooling option. There is no special HW for that and the P- gets hot just as fast as a P+ because of the extra acceleration. Or how about the higher regen. They could give both of those to us now if they wanted to since its just software.

I already suggested something like that.

That they might release a Track Mode Minus for the lesser-HW cars.

But they would need to actually change the software to calibrate for the HW on the lesser cars (since that makes more sense than just cut and pasting sections of code OUT of the full SW into another bunch of SW, and hoping you're not missing anything important)

So it might be coming, but they have to do the work first.

 

[Vines]

Yea, your probably right I do go +20 but in a very safe way like not when people are around.

I drive the exact road you are using as an example a lot, and if you were driving fast enough to get limited right there through the base of Saratoga, then I am glad your car is limiting you honestly. Even just out of town, that's a very dark residential area with cross traffic from blind driveways for 2-3 miles.

Do you still have the stock tires on too? Still on the stock brakes? Your statements don't agree with my experience in an extremely similar car. (P3D+)

You say that limited acceleration takes all the fun out in 5-10 minutes but my experience is that heat soaking takes at least 20 minutes of full race speed, and that its maybe 10% slower slower when starting to soak. If you are worried about looking like a fool when pulling over to cool between race sessions on the public road, then consider the full spectrum of that statement. This is not a problem with the car.

You do realize that regen braking will cause your drive train to heat up alot more. Setting it to low will transfer some of that heat to the brakes. Setting it to low will decrease your heat loading, and increase the brakes heat loading, an acceptable tradeoff for any race oriented driver. You certainly don't wan the increased regen of track mode if heat is your issue.

I guess I could see that if your tires and brakes were stock, that you'd have to brake way harder for every corner, and then want to accelerate way harder to catch up rather than carrying speed through the turns.

Having never experienced any dots reducing my fun I cannot say your experience is typical, and yes I do get going over 100 on that road every time I drive it. 65 is only for the slow sections. Even the uphill fast section just 3-4 miles towards Santa Cruz from where you took that picture 65 isn't even unreasonable for an average fast car let alone a rocket ship like the performance 3. So your statements don't make much sense either, saying you're below 65 and still getting thermally limited. No way you're staying under 65, getting thermally limited there in 5 minutes, and nothing is wrong.

Except I didn't drive 125mph on the Autobahn for 1 hour. Mine got heat soaked in 5min. going no faster than 65mph. It seems Tesla's Achille's heel is winding mountain roads especially up hill.

Could be that you do have a latent cooling or heating issue with your car and that service couldn't find it.

 

[tomas]

I drive the exact road you are using as an example a lot, and if you were driving fast enough to get limited right there through the base of Saratoga, then I am glad your car is limiting you honestly. Even just out of town, that's a very dark residential area with cross traffic from blind driveways for 2-3 miles.

Do you still have the stock tires on too? Still on the stock brakes? Your statements don't agree with my experience in an extremely similar car. (P3D+)

You say that limited acceleration takes all the fun out in 5-10 minutes but my experience is that heat soaking takes at least 20 minutes of full race speed, and that its maybe 10% slower slower when starting to soak. If you are worried about looking like a fool when pulling over to cool between race sessions on the public road, then consider the full spectrum of that statement. This is not a problem with the car.

You do realize that regen braking will cause your drive train to heat up alot more. Setting it to low will transfer some of that heat to the brakes. Setting it to low will decrease your heat loading, and increase the brakes heat loading, an acceptable tradeoff for any race oriented driver. You certainly don't wan the increased regen of track mode if heat is your issue.

I guess I could see that if your tires and brakes were stock, that you'd have to brake way harder for every corner, and then want to accelerate way harder to catch up rather than carrying speed through the turns.

Having never experienced any dots reducing my fun I cannot say your experience is typical, and yes I do get going over 100 on that road every time I drive it. 65 is only for the slow sections. Even the uphill fast section just 3-4 miles towards Santa Cruz from where you took that picture 65 isn't even unreasonable for an average fast car let alone a rocket ship like the performance 3. So your statements don't make much sense either, saying you're below 65 and still getting thermally limited. No way you're staying under 65, getting thermally limited there in 5 minutes, and nothing is wrong.



Could be that you do have a latent cooling or heating issue with your car and that service couldn't find it.

Totally agree. Something wrong.

 

[MXWing]

Barely any mentions, zero outrage.

Just keeping perspective.

 

[Msjulie]

Elon should never have offered any 'refund gifts' to anyone

 

[Powered By Jay]

Barely any mentions, zero outrage.

Just keeping perspective.

View attachment 351991

Wow. If I could break even in 2.5 years, I would definitely keep FUSC, but it’s looking like it would take me 25 years based on my expected SC usage.

 

[tomas]

Wow. If I could break even in 2.5 years, I would definitely keep FUSC, but it’s looking like it would take me 25 years based on my expected SC usage.

That calc was I suspect assuming 100% supercharging. Not occasional trip.

 

[juanmedina]

That calc was I suspect assuming 100% supercharging. Not occasional trip.

funny math

 

[pdxev]

That calc was I suspect assuming 100% supercharging. Not occasional trip.

The Model 3 is more difficult since it is more efficient. My math would look something like

10K miles per year / 3.5 miles per kWh = 2857 kWh * $0.24/kWh = $689.

This would be a 7.25 year break even cost and that would also mean "spite" charging at my local mall.

 

[tomas]

The Model 3 is more difficult since it is more efficient. My math would look something like

10K miles per year / 3.5 miles per kWh = 2857 kWh * $0.24/kWh = $689.

This would be a 7.25 year break even cost and that would also mean "spite" charging at my local mall.

Yep, I didn't even bother to do the math, but here goes my version: There's also charging loss and vampire loss to figure in, plus potential energy price inflation. Maybe best way to look at it is about 8 cents per supercharged mile.

So, $80 per 1,000 supercharged miles driven.

I can't stand the idea of doing "spite" charging... not worth my time. Given my patterns, I've been at about 1,000 supercharged miles per year. This may give me incentive to up that to around 2,500. So, $200 per year for me. Or, $1,000 over 5 years.

Really only makes sense for people who take a lot of road trips.

 

[Roys3]

Barely any mentions, zero outrage.

Just keeping perspective.

View attachment 351991

Fewer people, less outrage. Smaller % of car cost, less outrage...

 

[AnesDragon]

I am one of those buyers of P3D+ model with all upgraded features including white pearl paint and white seats and EAP except FSD. I would be happy if Tesla would just let me keep FUSC and would upgrade to FSD for a win-win situation instead of refunding $5000. This would save Tesla some money and I would be totally be thrilled with potential FSD feature in the future and make me more of a Tesla buyer.
Otherwise, I will ask for a $5000 back so I can invest into high promising dividend stock and use the dividend for endless albeit very intermittent supercharging access.

 

[Roys3]

In the end - nobody paid for PUP!

- The newbies get it gifted.
- The old PUPsters, provided a short-term interest-free $5K loan to Tesla, are now repaid, and are also "gifted".
- Only the old P-stealthers are being told "no gift for you schmucks! - go away! - but enjoy!" In hindsight they should have delayed their orders a few weeks, screwed up Tesla's great Q3 numbers, and gotten the gift too!

I think no one should have ever become "a gifted PUPster" - but if Tesla stupidly provides gifts to P-sters, they have to gift to all the P-sters...

 

[Roys3]

I am one of those buyers of P3D+ model with all upgraded features including white pearl paint and white seats and EAP except FSD. I would be happy if Tesla would just let me keep FUSC and would upgrade to FSD for a win-win situation instead of refunding $5000. This would save Tesla some money and I would be totally be thrilled with potential FSD feature in the future and make me more of a Tesla buyer.
Otherwise, I will ask for a $5000 back so I can invest into high promising dividend stock and use the dividend for endless albeit very intermittent supercharging access.

A reasonable request from a "gifted PUPster" (I'm serious.)

 

[Roys3]

Come to think of it - the P-stealthers have, as it stands, provided Tesla with its biggest margins per car!
Yet, they (we) are Tesla's red-headed stepchildren...

 

[Roys3]

Elon should never have offered any 'refund gifts' to anyone

Nor given gifts to newbies...

 

[Vines]

The reasons on the surface make sense. If the car is 5k cheaper they will likely sell a lot more of them, therefore making Tesla more money and ensuring success in the future, by keeping prices low. We knew that the economies of scale would lead to the price dropping.

However those who bought while the car was "Bleeding edge expensive" paid more for getting the new shiny thing in the first couple months of availability. Additionally they are guaranteed the full tax credit. Those ordering today do not have surety that they will get the full 7500 tax credit, so the 5k price drop keeps the cost palatable.

I think Tesla needs to make a 30 day price guarantee. That if the price for an option, or a model drops within the first 30 days of taking delivery, you automatically get the lower price.

 

[FlyNavy01]

are now repaid, and are also "gifted"

Who has been repaid? Because I haven't.

I actually mostly agree with Elon offering refunds, it's the initial $5k price drop that never should've happened. It was undoubtedly mostly pure profit for Tesla and people were gladly paying it, so I don't understand the seemingly impulsive thought process to change it out of the blue.

Tesla is great at many things but their abhorrent communication and schizophrenic pricing has started to wear on my patience. Just figure it out and leave it. No need to keep shooting yourself in the foot and pissing off more than half your customers once someone starts to whine and make headlines. The model 3 pricing has probably changed 5-6 times this year alone...

 

[Roys3]

The reasons on the surface make sense. If the car is 5k cheaper they will likely sell a lot more of them, therefore making Tesla more money and ensuring success in the future, by keeping prices low. We knew that the economies of scale would lead to the price dropping.

However those who bought while the car was "Bleeding edge expensive" paid more for getting the new shiny thing in the first couple months of availability. Additionally they are guaranteed the full tax credit. Those ordering today do not have surety that they will get the full 7500 tax credit, so the 5k price drop keeps the cost palatable.

I think Tesla needs to make a 30 day price guarantee. That if the price for an option, or a model drops within the first 30 days of taking delivery, you automatically get the lower price.

The 30-day guarantee is a good start.

I, for one, didn't buy early for the tax credit (don't make enough to get it), and it was a "new shiny thing" only because it was incentivised ("baited") with FUSC and Premium Connectivity. I was actually waiting for the $35K version... (since 3/2016).

 

[astrowunder]

Tesla is great at many things but their abhorrent communication and schizophrenic pricing has started to wear on my patience.

So much this ^^^ especially their communications, or lack thereof. I've begun the process of issuing chargebacks against their supercharging charges on my credit card in the hopes of getting it resolved. I contacted them 5 times with no response. Ridiculous.

<edit> I'm supposed to have FUSC, but they have been charging my card since day one. I've emailed my showroom and went through the 'official channels' on the my tesla page 4 times without any responses. I also called once several weeks back and they said it would be taken care of, but it's been long enough I had to pay my last credit card balance. Paying this much for a car with horrible customer service is not going to be viable long-term (and no I'm not a shorter seller- just a ticked off customer!)