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Does Lemon Law give you a new car, or your money back? I would think if a new car, they would give you PUP. If money back, just buy the PUP - same price.
People I know who've used the lemon law got their money back. Definitely the cheapest way to own a BMW if you don't mind all the trips to the dealer!
You should definitely try to get your money back if it spends more than 30 days in service.
 
Does Lemon Law give you a new car, or your money back? I would think if a new car, they would give you PUP. If money back, just buy the PUP - same price.
My understanding is that you can ask for a replacement or a refund, but it might depend what tesla feels is fair. I don't know if this would kill my tax credit or not, or how much I would get back. I only had the car just over 2 weeks before it went into service, 6-7 more days until it's a lemon by CA law. But even If I lose out on the tax credit, I'd still be ahead $2500 (if no lawyer) in the end I guess if I got a PUP car (still pay more than everyone else but nothing I can do about that). I think it has about 1000 miles on it.

My guess is they will assume I am getting the $7500 tax credit and deduct it from the refunded amount. Might be easier to get a lawyer involved which is unfortunate since that will cost about $1500 (My Last dealership vehicle purchase was a 2012 ford focus I had to have lemoned on it's 4th transmission failure in 3 years)... I guess I just have bad luck no matter what I buy.

On the downside it's just even more stress... Even if I do get the car back at this point, whats the chance it will go back to service for a week before the first 90 days? Should I even bother to PPF the front when I get it back?
 
My understanding is that you can ask for a replacement or a refund, but it might depend what tesla feels is fair. I don't know if this would kill my tax credit or not, or how much I would get back. I only had the car just over 2 weeks before it went into service, 7 more days until it's a lemon by CA law. But even If I lose out on the tax credit, I'd still be ahead $2500 (if no lawyer) in the end I guess if I got a PUP car (still pay more than everyone else but nothing I can do about that). I think it has about 1000 miles on it.

My guess is they will assume I am getting the $7500 tax credit and deduct it from the refunded amount. Might be easier to get a lawyer involved which is unfortunate since that will cost about $1500 (My Last dealership vehicle purchase was a 2012 ford focus I had to have lemoned on it's 4th transmission failure in 3 years)... I guess I just have bad luck no matter what I buy.

On the downside it's just even more stress... Even if I do get the car back at this point, whats the chance it will go back to service for a week before the first 90 days? Should I even bother to PPF the front when I get it back?
As someone who’s gone through a buyback (without going through lemon law), they refund you the full amount minus 7500 tax credit and mileage use. They don’t give you a replacement. You just order a new car if you want to get another Tesla ;)
 
My understanding is that you can ask for a replacement or a refund, but it might depend what tesla feels is fair. I don't know if this would kill my tax credit or not, or how much I would get back. I only had the car just over 2 weeks before it went into service, 6-7 more days until it's a lemon by CA law. But even If I lose out on the tax credit, I'd still be ahead $2500 (if no lawyer) in the end I guess if I got a PUP car (still pay more than everyone else but nothing I can do about that). I think it has about 1000 miles on it.

My guess is they will assume I am getting the $7500 tax credit and deduct it from the refunded amount. Might be easier to get a lawyer involved which is unfortunate since that will cost about $1500 (My Last dealership vehicle purchase was a 2012 ford focus I had to have lemoned on it's 4th transmission failure in 3 years)... I guess I just have bad luck no matter what I buy.

On the downside it's just even more stress... Even if I do get the car back at this point, whats the chance it will go back to service for a week before the first 90 days? Should I even bother to PPF the front when I get it back?
If your intent is to buy a P3D with PUP, and you cannot lemon your car for 1-2 weeks, you are almost certain to fall to 2019 50% tax credit.

That means your “savings” on PUP go down to $1250. Minus any other transaction costs.

If you are contemplating this because you believe your car is chronically faulty, that makes sense. If you are contemplating to make up for PUP pricing change, I do not think you will succeed.

On one hand, I was inclined not to reply... on the other hand, I thought about many more months hearing you agonize, and I thought I’d chime in on the odd chance it helps you arrive at a decision and stop posting your anxieties.
 
Okay, so right now there are 3? groups of people:
1) Old PUP owners (paid 5k for PUP) - They have the choice of $5k refund or keep FUSC
2) Old P- owners - FUSC (some Telsa reps say refund/lose FUSC available, some say it isn't)
3) New P owners - They get PUP included, no FUSC

So it seems like Tesla is just missing a path for current P- owners to get to P+(PUP) either with or without the FUSC?

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If your intent is to buy a P3D with PUP, and you cannot lemon your car for 1-2 weeks, you are almost certain to fall to 2019 50% tax credit.

That means your “savings” on PUP go down to $1250. Minus any other transaction costs.

If you are contemplating this because you believe your car is chronically faulty, that makes sense. If you are contemplating to make up for PUP pricing change, I do not think you will succeed.

On one hand, I was inclined not to reply... on the other hand, I thought about many more months hearing you agonize, and I thought I’d chime in on the odd chance it helps you arrive at a decision and stop posting your anxieties.
Well we don't know what it will cost to add PUP later, but my guess is around $8000. In which case it still makes sense to get a new car with PUP. But yea, it would only be lemoned due to tesla's lack of QC not because it's mechanically broken in some more serious way.
 
I may be in a 4th group. I ordered a P- on 10/11 after the FUSC referral program, and took delivery on 10/31, after the price change. So I don’t have FUSC or the PUP. Is anyone in the same boat as me? I’ve talked to Tesla employees 3 times now to no avail. I’m told I don’t qualify for $5,000 rebate because I didn’t buy the PUP or FUSC since I ordered after 9/19.

I should have returned the car after being delivered, but, like others, I thought the tweets would be honored. Also, part of me thought if I returned it and re-ordered I wouldn’t take delivery by 12/31 and wouldn’t be eligible for the full tax credit.

I’m curious if any others are similar to my scenario?

Okay, so right now there are 3? groups of people:
1) Old PUP owners (paid 5k for PUP) - They have the choice of $5k refund or keep FUSC
2) Old P- owners - FUSC (some Telsa reps say refund/lose FUSC available, some say it isn't)
3) New P owners - They get PUP included, no FUSC

So it seems like Tesla is just missing a path for current P- owners to get to P+(PUP) either with or without the FUSC?

View media item 119116
 
My understanding was that Lemon Law was about making it (something like) never having purchased the car in the first place -- meaning your car is "returned" and you get cash (perhaps minus depreciation or somesuch).

Given that "legal things" never seem to be "quick" you'd probably have to order a new (additional) PUP car before the Lemon Law invocation car gets resolved -- if you want to get it this year (i.e. order on/before 11/30). Further, doing so might give additional fuel to the Tesla side of the argument.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do or not do. :)
Unfortunately that sounds about right. :( I think they're gonna do everything they can to make sure you stay in The Screwed Group. :(
Sorry to say it...
BUT - tell them specifically what your intentions are - and make them (at least TRY to make them) give you specifics as a response. If they don't, at least then you'll know the true character of corporate, soon-to-be SP500, Tesla.
(Big corporations usually ignore "milk-cows'" concerns.)
 
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BUT - tell them specifically what your intentions are - and make them (at least TRY to make them) give you specifics as a response.
This is very good advice.

Probably something of the form...

Dear Tesla,

I ordered ___ with the expectation of ___. Subsequently ___ happened and now I'm in a "less than happy" customer. Where I would like to be is ___. What are the recommended way or ways to get there?

I'm considering doing ___.

etc
 
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As someone who’s gone through a buyback (without going through lemon law), they refund you the full amount minus 7500 tax credit and mileage use. They don’t give you a replacement. You just order a new car if you want to get another Tesla ;)

Would you be willing to share more details about your story? The detailed process you went through... the time each step took... how they calculated the mileage use ($/mi.)... etc. Thank you!
 
Okay, so right now there are 3? groups of people:
1) Old PUP owners (paid 5k for PUP) - They have the choice of $5k refund or keep FUSC
2) Old P- owners - FUSC (some Telsa reps say refund/lose FUSC available, some say it isn't)
3) New P owners - They get PUP included, no FUSC

So it seems like Tesla is just missing a path for current P- owners to get to P+(PUP) either with or without the FUSC?

View media item 119116
A decent general overview but doesn't hit all the identified groups. We also have "The Super-Gifted" and "The Screwed" groups.
 
I may be in a 4th group. I ordered a P- on 10/11 after the FUSC referral program, and took delivery on 10/31, after the price change. So I don’t have FUSC or the PUP. Is anyone in the same boat as me? I’ve talked to Tesla employees 3 times now to no avail. I’m told I don’t qualify for $5,000 rebate because I didn’t buy the PUP or FUSC since I ordered after 9/19.

I should have returned the car after being delivered, but, like others, I thought the tweets would be honored. Also, part of me thought if I returned it and re-ordered I wouldn’t take delivery by 12/31 and wouldn’t be eligible for the full tax credit.

I’m curious if any others are similar to my scenario?

Wow Tesla needs to do something.

The other day my father in law asked me "what don't you like about your Tesla" after taking him for a ride.

I paused for a while really trying to think of something that I didn't like but I couldn't then I said I don't like Tesla's Customer service. Customer service is really terrible wasted about 8 hours of my life in hold after they screwed up my order 3 times, my ISA was non resposive and now this price change tweet mess. Is disappointing that they are not going above and beyond to make it right for us. I still have no track mode. This is unacceptable.

I just referred someone to buy a model 3 and I am a share holder, I love my car and love the mission.
 
I agree. I love my car, but the service has left a little to be desired. They still owe me a new mirror due to it being damaged on delivery. They assure me they’ll send a technician before 12/17 when I’m scheduled to get PPF applied so they can apply it to the new mirror, but they haven’t given me any reason to believe them yet.

As far as refund, it wouldn’t take much to make me content. There was a reason I didn’t buy the PUP. I didn’t want bigger wheels and lower/stiffer suspension. I had that on my last car and was a little tired of the ride. I wanted the fun acceleration and slightly better ride. I don’t regret that one bit. Their complete unwillingness to even throw another $100 of supercharging or a carbon fiber spoiler when they’re giving some FUSC or $5,000 back or both is what frustrates me. It was like pulling teeth just to talk to them and get them to respond to me, and when they did they just said I was SOL while others are getting refunds.

I’ll still enjoy my car, but for right now it stings, and the difficulty I’ve had just getting ahold of someone to answer questions makes me hope I never have to really contact them for a big mainentance issue. Since the nearest service center is 3 hours away and they’re not great at returning emails or calls.

Wow Tesla needs to do something.

The other day my father in law asked me "what don't you like about your Tesla" after taking him for a ride.

I paused for a while really trying to think of something that I didn't like but I couldn't then I said I don't like Tesla's Customer service. Customer service is really terrible wasted about 8 hours of my life in hold after they screwed up my order 3 times, my ISA was non resposive and now this price change tweet mess. Is disappointing that they are not going above and beyond to make it right for us. I still have no track mode. This is unacceptable.

I just referred someone to buy a model 3 and I am a share holder, I love my car and love the mission.
 
I agree. I love my car, but the service has left a little to be desired. They still owe me a new mirror due to it being damaged on delivery. They assure me they’ll send a technician before 12/17 when I’m scheduled to get PPF applied so they can apply it to the new mirror, but they haven’t given me any reason to believe them yet.

As far as refund, it wouldn’t take much to make me content. There was a reason I didn’t buy the PUP. I didn’t want bigger wheels and lower/stiffer suspension. I had that on my last car and was a little tired of the ride. I wanted the fun acceleration and slightly better ride. I don’t regret that one bit. Their complete unwillingness to even throw another $100 of supercharging or a carbon fiber spoiler when they’re giving some FUSC or $5,000 back or both is what frustrates me. It was like pulling teeth just to talk to them and get them to respond to me, and when they did they just said I was SOL while others are getting refunds.

I’ll still enjoy my car, but for right now it stings, and the difficulty I’ve had just getting ahold of someone to answer questions makes me hope I never have to really contact them for a big mainentance issue. Since the nearest service center is 3 hours away and they’re not great at returning emails or calls.
On the positive side: I live over 6 hrs away from my SC, but my mobile service guy has been awesome.
The delivery process was a nightmare though, never mind this on-going pricing mess. Tesla has room for improvement on MANY fronts!
 
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If I lemon law my P3D-, will I get a PUP car as replacement?
Noticed for my last two service appointments they called me before the service was scheduled and converted my appointment to a mobile service appointment. I wonder if they are doing this so the car doesn't stay in their shop preventing me from reaching the "weeks in shop" limit required to engage the lemon law. I already have 6 weeks in SC so they probably don't want any more to accrue.
 
I may be in a 4th group. I ordered a P- on 10/11 after the FUSC referral program, and took delivery on 10/31, after the price change. So I don’t have FUSC or the PUP. Is anyone in the same boat as me? I’ve talked to Tesla employees 3 times now to no avail. I’m told I don’t qualify for $5,000 rebate because I didn’t buy the PUP or FUSC since I ordered after 9/19.

I should have returned the car after being delivered, but, like others, I thought the tweets would be honored. Also, part of me thought if I returned it and re-ordered I wouldn’t take delivery by 12/31 and wouldn’t be eligible for the full tax credit.

I’m curious if any others are similar to my scenario?
You know, in a way we are all partly in your scenario. Even though I took delivery 8/31, everything from Tesla at the time I ordered indicated it might be very difficult to get cars by end of year if I dawdled. That deadline kept moving out and delivery lead times kept shortening. I guess I should have never factored that in, but you work with the info you have at the time.

Part of my rationale for getting a P rather than AWD was that they were shipping P and had no date for AWD. I guess I’m not omniscient like @MXWing or I would have sussed that out and waited a couple more months.

But then I would not have gotten silver, so there’s a “silver lining”
 
As someone who’s gone through a buyback (without going through lemon law), they refund you the full amount minus 7500 tax credit and mileage use. They don’t give you a replacement. You just order a new car if you want to get another Tesla ;)
California Lemon Laws | DMV.ORG
Would this be different for a lemon car though?

"Generally, the lemon law covers new vehicles with serious defects/malfunctions for a certain amount of time or mileage. If your vehicle can't be fixed after a reasonable number of repair attempts by the manufacturer or its authorized dealer, you'll likely be entitled to a replacement vehicle of equal value or a total refund."

Total refund is not a refund minus $7500. Tesla does not need to know my current tax situation.

Wow Tesla needs to do something.

The other day my father in law asked me "what don't you like about your Tesla" after taking him for a ride.

I paused for a while really trying to think of something that I didn't like but I couldn't then I said I don't like Tesla's Customer service. Customer service is really terrible wasted about 8 hours of my life in hold after they screwed up my order 3 times, my ISA was non resposive and now this price change tweet mess. Is disappointing that they are not going above and beyond to make it right for us. I still have no track mode. This is unacceptable.

I just referred someone to buy a model 3 and I am a share holder, I love my car and love the mission.

Lots of people ask me about my car, I tell them it's back at the service center where tesla's belong, and I cannot recommend buying one at this time. I try to only vent on here, but if they want to know why I tell them about all the issues, and that I feel like I have been treated unfairly. I hate that when I will eventually get my car back it will already be obsolete "last year model" that I will be still be paying a premium price for. With all the delays, cancellations, stress, purchasing cars, selling cars, it took to make the tesla possible, I end up with a car that is missing options, but still commands a premium price.

It's like that episode of king of the hill MSRP and not a penny more! only it's worse. Great episode if you haven't seen it, it's worth a watch. Especially if your a P3D- owner in this thread.

We all got Hank's Special deal!
 
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California Lemon Laws | DMV.ORG
Would this be different for a lemon car though?

"Generally, the lemon law covers new vehicles with serious defects/malfunctions for a certain amount of time or mileage. If your vehicle can't be fixed after a reasonable number of repair attempts by the manufacturer or its authorized dealer, you'll likely be entitled to a replacement vehicle of equal value or a total refund."

Total refund is not a refund minus $7500. Tesla does not need to know my current tax situation.

Other people have gone round-and-round with Tesla on this. What it comes down to is Tesla normally buys back cars without going through a formal lemon law process and to go through that "easy"/quick process you either have to show that you don't qualify for the tax credit or accept the $7,500 less. If you want a total refund you would need to hire a lawyer and go through the full formal lemon law process which would likely take a long time. (You could possibly come out ahead as you could get a full refund, and the $7,500 tax credit, and still get a $3,750 tax credit on your new car.)

What can be a problem is if you only have enough tax liability to qualify for one tax credit. (Or maybe a little more.)
 
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