Performance Upgrade Price Change!

[Daniel in SD]

LoL, since I'm OCD, I decided to recreate your chart with colors representing different levels of "screwed" and aligned it more. You came out okay to good if you were in the green, and red are the screwed people.

View attachment 356540

I feel like you should add a box for those of us who thought the Performance was way overpriced but would have bought it had it been $5k cheaper. We are also victims.

Looking at used Model S's, it appears that the P85 and 85 are listed for nearly identical prices on Tesla's website.

 

[Roys3]

Plot twist:

Tesla takes AWD trade ins and creates more P stealth cars by unlocking that extra 1 second.

Yes indeed - a likely "corporate idea".
But they should also PUP them out - because P stealth is obsolete...
(Mangy dogs or red-headed step children don't sell so well.)

 

[Roys3]

Assuming both cars will have similar depreciation curves and the same purchase price, the PUP equipped cars will be the clear winners on trade-in value. But I agree that the difference could end up being relatively small. Less than $5K for sure, but I would think quite a bit more than $1K.

Reminds me of when I was shopping for my first-ever car in Germany - the best used BMW 2002 I could find.
Only the BMW 2002tii counted in my mind. If I were buying a used P3, only the +-version would count... (But maybe that's just me, knowing what I know now.)

 

[MXWing]

It’s quite established that higher priced cars depreciate faster than cheaper cars. As far as trade in, the difference between performance and perfPUP cars will be negligible - definitely not the retail $5k. Anyone buying a 60+k car thinking that car won’t drop 20k in value over the near term should rethink their purchase. It’s why GAP insurance exists.

A 2013 P85 was 112k new. 5 years later what are they worth? 50k on the high end? ... and here we have people quibbling over 5k. Lol

I haven't ran any correlation analysis but I bet a big part of the drop off is due to no AP hardware. Not many samples to work with but 2017 cars are a lot more than 2016 cars due to AP2 hardware certainty.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I haven't ran any correlation analysis but I bet a big part of the drop off is due to no AP hardware. Not many samples to work with but 2017 cars are a lot more than 2016 cars due to AP2 hardware certainty.

Check this site out: EV-CPO.com - Tesla New, Used, and CPO Inventory Listings
Looks like P85s are listed for an average of $4k more than 85s but I bet some of that is because they have more options than the average 85. The P was a $12k option.

 

[Roys3]

Question to Tesla:

Why did you create Double-FUSC'ers - when you could have (SHOULD HAVE!) just created Double-PUP'sters ???
(Maybe it was obFUSCation, or just innocent bone-headedness, but it was... unhelpful.)

Create Double-PUP'sters now!

Get it? Think about it. Solves all problems... (It's not too late.)

 

[Jedi2155]

If tesla has taught me anything, it's that you should NEVER reserve and that they really don't care about their loyal patient customers. I also learned that I should not expect a good car buying processes even if your buying an expensive car. I should have known they would screw people over on pricing just the same as every other car company. I should have known something bad would happen when buying my first expensive car. Every expensive purchase I ever make has to turn into a disaster. Not sure why I expected anything different from Tesla.

They did ace the "worst car buying experience in my lifetime" category though, previously the record was held by Ford.

I'm saddens me that you experienced this and that Tesla did what they did. I know some people who work at Tesla too who are also face-palming in their own buying experiences. My own buying experience was clearly documented to the media in hopes of changing Tesla's behavior in this whole ramp up because many people will be burnt out and will not rebuy a Tesla for a long time. I'm forgiving, but I'm not sure people like you are and there are many people who are like you

I feel right now that Tesla is tunnel visioned into the production targets. They're simply ignoring almost everything that is not related to getting cars out and a lot of us "loyal" customers are being shafted and put

On a side note, I held out giving Tesla a deposit and ended up buying the highest end model based on my research of Tesla's historical behavior (you can see just how many times I changed my config as I learned more of Tesla's policies etc.). With any "expensive" purchase the best way to avoid getting burned is to do your research and even then we were both semi-burned..

Ah, the "gifted poodles" are spreading their wisdom...
Gotta go get me some gap insurance now...

I maximized my loan and bought gap insurance for this reason......performance cars typically fetch less on the resale market.

I feel like you should add a box for those of us who thought the Performance was way overpriced but would have bought it had it been $5k cheaper. We are also victims.

Looking at used Model S's, it appears that the P85 and 85 are listed for nearly identical prices on Tesla's website.

There are a lot more things I can add to that chart...the whole thing was an ultimate fiasco.

I don't expect my car to be highly valued in 5 years. I already put a valuation in my head of $0 at 200,000 miles (even though we know it would be more). I'm currently assuming my car costs about $0.38/mi driven. When you buy an expensive item, they rarely have inherent value, otherwise that "purchase" would have already been labeled as an investment and we should all know that cars are not investments....

 

[Stacks]

Small claims court limit is $5k. I am by no means a law professional so does anyone think a tweet by a CEO would be legally binding?

 

[Roys3]

Question to Tesla:

Why did you create Double-FUSC'ers - when you could have (SHOULD HAVE!) just created Double-PUP'sters ???
(Maybe it was obFUSCation, or just innocent bone-headedness, but it was... unhelpful.)

Create Double-PUP'sters now!

Get it? Think about it. Solves all problems... (It's not too late.)

There's P85_DA disagreeing again - so it MUST be right!
Seriously, this is the solution. Let it percolate...

 

[Glamisduner]

Small claims court limit is $5k. I am by no means a law professional so does anyone think a tweet by a CEO would be legally binding?

no

 

[Roys3]

There's P85_DA disagreeing again - so it MUST be right!
Seriously, this is the solution. Let it percolate...

Ah yes, MP3Mike too. Ditto.

 

[Roys3]

Ah yes, MP3Mike too. Ditto.

Does a "double-disagree" by P85_DA count as a "like"?
Does a "Double-FUSC" by Elon count as a PUP?

 

[lbowroom]

Why not? The SEC did.

 

[Roys3]

Does a "double-disagree" by P85_DA count as a "like"?
Does a "Double-FUSC" by Elon count as a PUP?

If nothing else, P85_DA is funny! - and that has some value.

 

[NathanielHrnblwr]

I haven't ran any correlation analysis but I bet a big part of the drop off is due to no AP hardware. Not many samples to work with but 2017 cars are a lot more than 2016 cars due to AP2 hardware certainty.

I wonder what neat hardware the Model 3 will have in 5 years. Hell, 3 years even. I bet few will care about some 20" wheels with overpriced tires by then.

 

[Glamisduner]

I wonder what neat hardware the Model 3 will have in 5 years. Hell, 3 years even. I bet few will care about some 20" wheels with overpriced tires by then.

People will still want larger wheels, larger brakes, spoiler, aluminum pedals and track mode over cars that don't have it, especially when the lacking cars look identical to cars that cost 40k less. The difference in 0-60, could be negated too since they could just unlock all the awd cars.

Why not? The SEC did.

Because we are not the SEC. Good luck finding a better lawyer than Elons!

Also in this case they owe us nothing. He was not manipulating the market. There is nothing illegal about pissing off your customers.

We were suckers!

 

[alloverx]

I don't expect my car to be highly valued in 5 years. I already put a valuation in my head of $0 at 200,000 miles (even though we know it would be more). I'm currently assuming my car costs about $0.38/mi driven. When you buy an expensive item, they rarely have inherent value, otherwise that "purchase" would have already been labeled as an investment and we should all know that cars are not investments....

200,000 miles?
How long will that take?
I will be pleasantly surprised if you do that many miles without major repairs on a fairly new car platform.

If you bought one in 2 years time I would be more confident it might last the distance better.

 

[Glamisduner]

200,000 miles?
How long will that take?
I will be pleasantly surprised if you do that many miles without major repairs on a fairly new car platform.

If you bought one in 2 years time I would be more confident it might last the distance better.

that's disappointing to hear
Guess there's still lots of reasons to buy gas cars then.

 

[alloverx]

If you want an easy 200,000 miles I might suggest a well maintained
-Toyota 4Runner
-Toyota Corolla
-Several diesel VW products
-non-turbo F150 or Silverado with no recent model-year engine design changes.
-Some recent model-S might hit the mark as they have no recent changes.

As an aside I do have a 2006 Infiniti (AWD) vehicle with 200,000+ miles and the major items replaced so far
-new driveshaft
-new radiator
-engine seals have been redone (its not as smooth running any more)
-brake calipers

 

[Jedi2155]

200,000 miles?
How long will that take?
I will be pleasantly surprised if you do that many miles without major repairs on a fairly new car platform.

If you bought one in 2 years time I would be more confident it might last the distance better.

Depends on whether I continue my current trend of 25-40k miles a year (5.8 years based on my current mileage but more likely in 8-10 years). The question is how much of that stuff will break within the warranty period and how much will occur outside of it. The nice part of the the old S/X warranties was the 8 year unlimited mileage that Tesloop exploited.

We are limited to 120,000 miles drivetrain/battery and only 50k miles bumper to bumper. I don't imagine the bumper to bumper expenses to be more than 5k (considering that I just lost 2k, partially offset by insurance due to tire/rim damage, I dont imagine repairs to be particularly cheap). The most expensive parts of the car that is likely to breakdown after the 50k miles IMO is the display, and/or wheels/tire components.To help with that I have Mechanical Breakdown Insurance for relatively cheap through my Geico insurance which covers me during the 50-100k mileage range.

Beyond 120k miles, I have some concerns that some fault in the battery pack or drivetrain might come up and cost ~5k-15k in repairs which I figure is likely to occur every 100-150k miles from Tesloops data on their S/X. Again I hope the main issues come up during the warranty period but we shall see....

that's disappointing to hear
Guess there's still lots of reasons to buy gas cars then.

There are still plenty of gas cars that break down well below 100k miles. Only CERTAIN models gas cars as mentioned by Alloverx has a good track record. I trust a Volt designed and reliably engineered by GM to last 200k miles without much issues, a Model 3 that skipped testing and was rushed to production? Not so much.

My friends Subaru WRX STI had a broken engine at 60,000 miles. My old 2003 civic, blew out engine gasket requiring a engine rebuild at 110,000 miles. Etc.

All cars have issues depending how well they're maintained / treated and the development behind it. To generalize is to make a mistake/assumption. And you know what they say about assumptions.....