PG&E Rate Schedules: "Home Charging" (EV2-A) Goes Live vs. Others

[merpderp]

Whether EV2-A will save you money really depends on what loads you have that cannot be moved out of the Peak hours. If you live in the East Bay or Central Valley where you have a lot of A/C that you cannot avoid during 4-9pm, then EV2 may not be good for you. Keep in mind that TOU-C has the same Peak hours but the Peak and Off-Peak are closer to the same price than EV2-A. TOU-D is 5-8pm so it would be easier to avoid A/C during those hours. Depending on how much EV charging you do relative to your household consumption, the lower cost of EV charging could dominate the calculation.
Pandemic household usage patterns are different than they used to be, so keep that in mind too.

Summary:
TOU-D Peak M-F 5-8pm
- Summer Peak=$0.36476 Off-Peak=$0.26980
- Winter Peak=$0.29089 Off-Peak=$0.27351

TOU-C Peak M-F 4-9pm
- Summer Baseline Peak=$0.3270 Off-Peak=$0.26356
- Summer Over Baseline Peak=$0.41333 Off-Peak=$0.34989
- Winter Baseline Peak= $0.22991 Off-Peak=$0.21258
- Winter Over Baseline Peak=$0.31624 Off-Peak=$0.29891

EV2-A Peak 4-9pm every day Part-Peak 3-4pm, 9p-12mid
- Summer Peak=$0.47861 Part-Peak=$0.36812 Off-Peak=$0.16611
- Winter Peak=$0.35150 Part-Peak=$0.33480 Off-Peak=$0.16611

All of these plans have the new 4 month long Summer season June-September. Earlier plans were 6 months May-October.

P.S. I detest the "Baseline Credit" nomenclature in the TOU-C tariff. They should just say Baseline and Over Baseline like I did above.

TOU-C is 7 days a week... which is WILD.

 

[miimura]

TOU-C is 7 days a week... which is WILD.

You are correct. That is my mistake in my Summary. EV2-A is also every day, no holidays.
E-TOU-D only has Peak Monday-Friday and also has holidays treated as weekends.

 

[aesculus]

EV2-A definitely penalizes those with PV compared to the previous plan. And it penalizes those with PV+storage even more. So from a personal perspective, I don't like it one bit.

That said, it potentially more accurately reflects demand as California's PV installations continue to grow, and I'm assuming that's a good thing from a grid usage perspective. And if the PSPS events didn't encourage enough people to install storage, this peak shifting until 11pm might.

If they ever implement the ability to export your PV generated power during any part of the production day (read at peak) at full retail credit, it would be great.

I doubt that every happens.

 

[Janus]

And it penalizes those with PV+storage even more.

I'm curious about this specific point. I would think that with a shorter peak and part-peak, storage systems would need to last less time than before. So as long as the storage system lasted until midnight, then all should be well???

I do see that that off-peak rate is higher under EV2-A. Is that the issue? I feel like I'm missing something.

 

[miimura]

I'm curious about this specific point. I would think that with a shorter peak and part-peak, storage systems would need to last less time than before. So as long as the storage system lasted until midnight, then all should be well???

I do see that that off-peak rate is higher under EV2-A. Is that the issue? I feel like I'm missing something.

The main problem is that the majority of solar generating hours have been changed from Part-Peak (under EV-A) to Off-Peak (under EV2-A). If you don't have storage, that is a huge hit. The fact that the Off-Peak price is higher on EV2-A just adds insult to injury for actual EV + solar customers.

In a way, the EV-A rate was too good to be true. We were earning about 2kWh of EV charging for every kWh of solar generation. That wasn't sustainable.

 

[aesculus]

We were earning about 2kWh of EV charging for every kWh of solar generation.

$0.54314 (peak) ÷ $0.14648 (off peak) = 3.71, so almost 4:1 in credit value. And since I always pay at trueup (big energy hog), I get my full value.

 

[ohmman]

I'm curious about this specific point. I would think that with a shorter peak and part-peak, storage systems would need to last less time than before. So as long as the storage system lasted until midnight, then all should be well???

I do see that that off-peak rate is higher under EV2-A. Is that the issue? I feel like I'm missing something.

I think @miimura explained it, but it's less about how long storage needs to last and more about how much solar I can sell back to the grid and at what price. EV-A let me sell at part-peak and at peak during the highest generating times, creating a massive credit. I consumed off of my PWs during a lot of that time each day.

On the bright side, my PWs will see less cycles, and therefore less degradation.. I guess.

 

[miimura]

$0.54314 (peak) ÷ $0.14648 (off peak) = 3.71, so almost 4:1 in credit value. And since I always pay at trueup (big energy hog), I get my full value.

This is not what I was talking about. On EV-A your solar used to earn you Part-Peak credits at $0.29567/kWh from 7am to 2pm and you could use that to charge your car at Off-Peak at $0.14232/kWh (Effective Jan 1, 2020, Summer rates). That is 2.08X. Winter rates are about 1.6X Part-Peak to Off-Peak. You could also export your solar at Peak price after 2pm. In my specific case, my generation goes way down in the afternoon due to shading and before Powerwalls, I would usually use more energy after the sun went down than I earned in credits after 2pm.

With Powerwalls, we used to arbitrage EV-A between Part-Peak generation and Peak discharge. Now on EV2-A we charge on Off-Peak and discharge during Part-Peak and Peak. However, the Summer is only 4 months on EV2 while EV has a 6 month Summer season. The Winter arbitrage spread is much lower on both EV schedules.

 

[miimura]

I think @miimura explained it, but it's less about how long storage needs to last and more about how much solar I can sell back to the grid and at what price. EV-A let me sell at part-peak and at peak during the highest generating times, creating a massive credit. I consumed off of my PWs during a lot of that time each day.

On the bright side, my PWs will see less cycles, and therefore less degradation.. I guess.

I don't see less cycles on EV2-A. When on EV-A the generation was at Part-Peak, so there was not much reason to discharge the batteries during the evening Part-Peak (9-11pm). Now on EV2-A the generation is at Off-Peak rate, so it's better to discharge all the way through Part-Peak and Peak (3pm-12mid). I think my system can do that during the EV2 4 month Summer rate season. During the rest of the year my solar probably doesn't generate enough to do that, so it covers Peak, then runs down to the Reserve during Part-Peak after 9pm.

 

[ohmman]

I don't see less cycles on EV2-A. When on EV-A the generation was at Part-Peak, so there was not much reason to discharge the batteries during the evening Part-Peak (9-11pm). Now on EV2-A the generation is at Off-Peak rate, so it's better to discharge all the way through Part-Peak and Peak (3pm-12mid). I think my system can do that during the EV2 4 month Summer rate season. During the rest of the year my solar probably doesn't generate enough to do that, so it covers Peak, then runs down to the Reserve during Part-Peak after 9pm.

Thanks. That makes sense. Where do you keep your reserve? I generally keep mine at 50% but raise it higher during fire season.

 

[mociaf9]

Just following up on this...

To make matters even stupider, I looked on the Web site (literally 5 minutes ago) and it still thinks I'm still on EV-A, more than a month after the forced transition happened.

You might want to try clearing your internet browser's cache and deleting any relevant cookies or page history saved offline just to be sure you're getting a totally fresh loading of the relevant pages on the PG&E website.

 

[miimura]

Thanks. That makes sense. Where do you keep your reserve? I generally keep mine at 50% but raise it higher during fire season.

I set my Reserve at 25% when I have sufficient generation. As the Fall progresses and my generation falls and starts to approach my Peak consumption, I raise the Reserve so the headroom above matches the best possible generation for that day. Generally, the top is 75% in December and early January. Basically, my thinking is that I would rather it bounce off the Reserve every day at the top of the SOC instead of the bottom. Outages are more likely in Winter weather where I live so I would rather have that energy cushion. If there was a big storm coming, I would just put it in Backup mode a day or two ahead. This is all because I have a small solar system.

 

[wws]

So if one (with solar) were to install some storage, would it be advantageous to remain on EV2-A? Or just go with one of the other TOU plans?

Right now the PG&E Rate Estimator is showing me $1405/year for E-TOU, $1420/year for E-TOU-D, and $1530/year for EV2-A. (E-1 is showing $1390.) The spread between them isn't that much - so I guess it doesn't make a lot of difference which plan I'm on now. But I was previously around $500/year with EV-A.

 

[miimura]

So if one (with solar) were to install some storage, would it be advantageous to remain on EV2-A? Or just go with one of the other TOU plans?

Right now the PG&E Rate Estimator is showing me $1405/year for E-TOU, $1420/year for E-TOU-D, and $1530/year for EV2-A. (E-1 is showing $1390.) The spread between them isn't that much - so I guess it doesn't make a lot of difference which plan I'm on now. But I was previously around $500/year with EV-A.

If you got home storage that allowed you to eliminate your Summer Peak and Part-Peak usage on EV2-A, it would be your cheapest option. I don't have A/C and I have calculated that the Powerwalls save me about $700/year. If you have A/C demand during Peak, you could save a lot more.

 

[goldengate]

So if one (with solar) were to install some storage, would it be advantageous to remain on EV2-A? Or just go with one of the other TOU plans?

Right now the PG&E Rate Estimator is showing me $1405/year for E-TOU, $1420/year for E-TOU-D, and $1530/year for EV2-A. (E-1 is showing $1390.) The spread between them isn't that much - so I guess it doesn't make a lot of difference which plan I'm on now. But I was previously around $500/year with EV-A.

Estimator gave me the exact same numbers... under the old EV rate my bill was about $600-$700 a year. I moved back to the E-1 rate effective today -- if I'm not going to be rewarded for micromanaging use by hour, I might as well just go back to tiers. Also, the peak price is so high with EV2-A (48 cents!!!!!!) that there's a huge risk in driving the bill way up if we need the AC for an hour or need to roast a chicken in the oven.

I think the new EV2-A rate only makes sense for those with battery storage where they can sell electricity back at that higher rate. For the rest of us, or at least for me, it's a raw deal. It's yet another example of how CPUC and our "regulators" are in the back pocket of PG&E and not looking out for consumers.

 

[miimura]

Estimator gave me the exact same numbers... under the old EV rate my bill was about $600-$700 a year. I moved back to the E-1 rate effective today -- if I'm not going to be rewarded for micromanaging use by hour, I might as well just go back to tiers. Also, the peak price is so high with EV2-A (48 cents!!!!!!) that there's a huge risk in driving the bill way up if we need the AC for an hour or need to roast a chicken in the oven.

I think the new EV2-A rate only makes sense for those with battery storage where they can sell electricity back at that higher rate. For the rest of us, or at least for me, it's a raw deal. It's yet another example of how CPUC and our "regulators" are in the back pocket of PG&E and not looking out for consumers.

Personally, I'm happy that there is a choice for a plan that has low Off-Peak price in exchange for a high Peak price. It does what it's supposed to, which is encourage shifting usage away from the times of high grid demand. If it doesn't suit your situation, choose another that does suit you, as you did. More choice is better.
If you want to complain about something, complain about rates going up every 3 months across the board...

 

[goldengate]

i think the old EV plan made a lot more sense. For example, why in the world is there ANY peak on weekends, when industry and many businesses are shut down and there's excess supply? I fundamentally agree with TOU pricing but it needs to be a compelling value proposition for me to worry about the time of day when I consume (and I did, diligently, for the last 2 years with the old EVA plan).

RE the rates going up... I just switched my generation provider from PG&E to MCE... voting with my feet.

 

[JPP]

i think the old EV plan made a lot more sense. For example, why in the world is there ANY peak on weekends, when industry and many businesses are shut down and there's excess supply? I fundamentally agree with TOU pricing but it needs to be a compelling value proposition for me to worry about the time of day when I consume (and I did, diligently, for the last 2 years with the old EVA plan).

RE the rates going up... I just switched my generation provider from PG&E to MCE... voting with my feet.

Of course the EV-A plan made sense to you--maybe not so much to PG&E. That's why they are killing it.

BTW be careful with MCE--be sure you understand their approach with solar and NEM.

 

[goldengate]

BTW be careful with MCE--be sure you understand their approach with solar and NEM.

Please tell me more... I understand the main difference is they true up each month instead of annually... what am I missing? Thanks much

 

[JPP]

Please tell me more... I understand the main difference is they true up each month instead of annually... what am I missing? Thanks much

Things might have changed now--but in the East Bay they offered to take over a couple of years ago, but the NEM was not at that time favorable. But you should carefully read their proposal and rate table and compare to your current PG&E plan. YMMV.