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The bottom line is that the utilities are producing so much solar that they're punishing everybody for making the investment in solar. I would advise anyone thinking about solar to ONLY consider it if you have a west facing possibility. Having a south facing array...yes, I get lots of sun, but I don't get paid for it with NEM. If I had to choose today, I'd get a battery and sign up for EV2. No solar. Charge those bad boys up from midnight to 3pm for 15 cents a kWh and tell PGE to suck on it the rest of the day till midnight!!!
How are the solar guys selling these systems now? The IRR is getting crushed.
Sorry this is a bit of an old thread, but I am a Tesla Model S owner who is doing a remodel, and considering solar and/or a battery system.
I am currently on the EV-A rate plan (started in March), and was wondering, with that plan, should I just purchase a battery storage unit, fill it up from 11pm - 7am, then drain it over the day? That is, it seems to me with a battery system, the relevant energy cost to compare to solar is the lowest cost at which you can fill your battery. In the case of EV-A (or even EV2-A), that cost is much lower than the TOU plans.
Am I thinking about this correctly?
Thanks
Battery storage must be charged by solar to qualify for the 30% federal tax credit. Tesla's software will limit charging to comply with this rule if the Powerwalls are paired with solar.
Help me to understand this, please.
So, if you have solar and claim the PW tax credit, the PW will be programmed so that it only charges from solar?
And if you don’t claim the PW tax credit, you can charge however you like, ie. from the grid during off-peak hours only?
Thanks. Does this apply to other battery solutions as well? For example, if I got an installer to put in LG batteries, could that charge directly from the grid, without solar?I don't think Tesla offers your second option (how would they know that you didn't claim the credit?). If you don't have any solar at all then presumably they allow it to charge from the grid (otherwise it would be pretty useless), if there is solar then I think solar is the only source it will use for charging (other than Storm Watch mode).
This is what I am thinking.EV2-A is the least advantageous for solar because there are more hours when the sun is up that are off-peak and more hours when the sun is down that are peak or partial peak. This means it’s harder to offset your usage using solar production because you generate at lower rates than you consume.
As solar production becomes a larger part of the energy mix, this is probably going to become more common. Batteries will become much more worthwhile then.
This is what I am thinking.
If you are on EV2-A, it would seem the optimal solution would be to invest in a battery system, where you can charge your car and your battery during the $0.15633 period of midnight - 3PM, then discharge your battery from 3PM - 12PM. With a sufficient battery capacity, and through load shifting (e.g. do the laundry and run the dishwasher, etc in the morning), one should be able to swing it, so the average price is close to the $0.15633 minimum., excluding capitalized costs of the battery system And as someone else mentioned, it is possible that, as more solar hits the grid, the cheapest rates will be when the sun is strongest. By using a battery system, you can "free ride" on everyone else's solar installations.
Thanks, I see what you are saying, and your math makes sense given the rates today. My bigger concern is what some other posters pointed out above - if you look at the ISO net usage charts, and figure in continued solar installation, at some point the utilities will be giving away power during the day, so that 15.6 cents will drop to pennies during peak solar times.I'm not sure the math will necessarily pencil out, especially since I don't think you can take the 30% ITC with just a battery system without solar.
The amortized cost per kWh for our 13kw solar plus 3 Powerwalls over 10 years is about 26 cents per kWh. This is assuming battery and solar are worthless after 10 years which obviously isn't the case. And solar prices have dropped since we got our system last year.
By my math, just the 3 Powerwalls would be 12c per kWh over those 10 years, plus 15.6 cents per kWh = 27.6c per kWh, slightly more than our solar+storage setup after amortizing it for just 10 years. And that assuming PG&E won't be raising rates at all over the next 10 years, which they certainly will to help pay for their bankruptcy.
Thanks, I see what you are saying, and your math makes sense given the rates today. My bigger concern is what some other posters pointed out above - if you look at the ISO net usage charts, and figure in continued solar installation, at some point the utilities will be giving away power during the day, so that 15.6 cents will drop to pennies during peak solar times.
I used to live in Seattle, and energy there is cheap - less than 10 cents a kwh a few years ago. Still low double digits today. The reason is the abundance of hydro power. In CA, solar will be the hydro power, except it is only available during certain hours, unlike hydro. And unlike hydro, the availability will continue to increase, exacerbating the peaks and valleys of net demand. The EV2-A rate is an indication of where things are going IMHO.
So it does seem like the best strategy will be to be able to store your own energy with batteries, draw off the grid when power is cheap (free), and draw on that storage when rates are highest / solar generation diminishes. Installing solar, and contributing to the surplus of power during certain hours, won't make sense, unless all solar generators have their own storage solutions, which seems unlikely any time soon.
EV-A today is $0.13452 Summer Off-Peak.That all makes sense, but the lowest cost PG&E off-peak plan has been steadily climbing over the last few years as solar proliferates. Off-peak EV-A used to be 9.7 cents back in 2013, but its climbed a full 50% in 6 years. Maybe PG&E is deciding that it needs to make its margin off its richer customers that can afford EV’s.
Does it say why they are moving you? I had thought EVA rate plan households were grandfathered for 2 or 4 years unless you consumed 800% more this month than the last year then they kick you out to another ToU for a year and then they move you back to EV2A.FYI,
I just got a 60 day notice, that my ev rate is changing from EV-A to EV2-A