PGE 2024 Rates

[thatredM3]

These new rates are horrible for us without solar. Off peak charging for me just went up 23%, and I'm not sure if the convenience of charging in the garage can beat out charging for 20 min once or twice a week at my local supercharger which is $.23 after 7pm. I will say at these rates I'd have second thoughts about buying an EV.

I hate PGE so much

 

[tjkessler]

I have solar but when it's cloudy especially in the winter, I charge at the local high school. Most of the local schools got solar under state and local programs and put in banks of electric car chargers under those same programs. They're typically open to the public during non school hours. The local high school charges $.20kWh peak and $.10/kWh off peak. You may also find bargain charging at libraries and city hall. I walk for exercise so I just incorporate charging into my routine.

 

[thatredM3]

I have solar but when it's cloudy especially in the winter, I charge at the local high school. Most of the local schools got solar under state and local programs and put in banks of electric car chargers under those same programs. They're typically open to the public during non school hours. The local high school charges $.20kWh peak and $.10/kWh off peak. You may also find bargain charging at libraries and city hall. I walk for exercise so I just incorporate charging into my routine.

Yes, this is definitely going to increase EV adoption... Great if it works for you, and I'm definitely going to be checking out the local schools to see if they have a similar setup, but that does not sound convenient at all unless you live next to a school.

 

[cwerdna]

Yeah, I posted about the EV2-A increase at PG&E EV2A rate went up by 20% March 1 but yeah, it's not limited to that schedule only.

And, as I posted at PG&E EV2A rate went up by 20% March 1, it'll get worse in March.

There is a high school (one can see it in Plugshare) that isn't that far from home that 10 cents per kWh for level 2 per Powerflex app but I haven't dropped by to see their policies. There are DC FCs and L2s near home in an area I pass that are only 19 cents per kWh.

Fortunately, I get free L2 juice thanks to my work so I don't use public charging that much.

 

[h2ofun]

Just cannot believe the folks who think all this stuff makes an EV something people should want to buy. Just nuts.

Now let me hassle trying to find a place to charge, and waste me time. My ICE cars keep sounding better all the time.

And I get 100% free charging at home.

 

[David_Cary]

Those rates are amazing. But to be fair, 23% is not that far off from the average increase which seems about 17%.
Don't get me wrong, the EV rates should be lower and certainly not going up faster than most everything else.

Made me go check my rates. 11.6 cents no matter what (except that in winter it goes to 10.6 after the first 800 kwh - reverse tiering).

I never really remember paying much less than 10 cents (except on TOU) and I have lived in the same general area since 1997 - so 27 years. So that would be about 17% increase over 27 years which is to say much less than the rate of inflation.

I strongly support higher energy costs as a way of controlling waste and environmental damage. But, at some point, paying up to 6X what someone across the country pays is a bit ridiculous. It is an example of our failed governance. Why should people in CA not get to have outdoor xmas lights while people here don't ever bother with a timer (they do - I am exaggerating)? I know people with $500 a month bills here which would be over $2000 in CA. That being said, property tax differentials are similar and sometimes worse where $30k in NJ becomes $6k here.

We need about 200,000 more transplants from CA to NC to help even the playing field - ideally before November.

Now if you got a CA tax credit, then look at how many years that pays the electricity cost differential. Maybe make you not feel so bad. Our state EV fee started at $140 and went to $180 last week. Up to $240 in July. Oops - sounds like CA is about the same so not much benefit there.

 

[Watts_Up]

Is there any published numbers explaining the raison of this 15%-20% increase of the PG&E elctricity rate?
Considering that Californis get most of its energey from Solar Energy instead of burning Oil?

 

[cwerdna]

Is there any published numbers explaining the raison of this 15%-20% increase of the PG&E elctricity rate?
Considering that Californis get most of its energey from Solar Energy instead of burning Oil?

PG&E proposes another rate hike published 12/13/23 says
"PG&E is asking for another rate hike weeks after it got one.

The utility's filing with the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) is for $1.5 billion from customers.

PG&E says it needs this influx of cash not to underground power lines or cut trees but to stabilize its finances.

The utility got a 13% increase three weeks ago, but it was asking for about 26%. The already-approved increase kicks in New Year’s Day."

As for your latter statement, see https://www.pge.com/content/dam/pge...nce/bill-inserts/1022-Power-Content-Label.pdf and Clean Energy Solutions, for example. This is pretty different than what https://www.epa.gov/egrid/power-profiler#/CAMX says for CAMX.

 

[cwerdna]

Now if you got a CA tax credit, then look at how many years that pays the electricity cost differential. Maybe make you not feel so bad. Our state EV fee started at $140 and went to $180 last week. Up to $240 in July. Oops - sounds like CA is about the same so not much benefit there.

CVRP Home | Clean Vehicle Rebate Project is closed. This was the CA CVRP. I've never qualified for it. EV 1: too short a lease, I knew that going into it. EV 2: Used, so didn't qualify. EV 3: They really lowered the income cap, so I couldn't qualify. EV 4: Income cap prob still.

As I pointed to another story, our rates are supposed to go up again March 1, 2024.

Back to PG&E hikes, there was this story awhile back: Here's why your PG&E bills will go up in 2024 from Nov 2023:
"PG&E customers should expect to see an increase in their bills next year.

The California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) has approved a rate hike -- which could increase household bills by about $22 to $32 a month.

CPUC declined PG&E's request for a 26% increase in utility rates but approved an 11% increase."

TBH, I did get EV Resources and Incentives on EV 4. I don't remember the amount off the top of my head.... $750 for me. It was just applied towards my lease.

Also, long ago, there was some PG&E "clean fuel rebate" on EVs/PHEVs. I don't remember the amounts, but definitely got it on EV 2 ($500 mentioned at PG&E Launches $500 Rebate for Electric Vehicle Drivers sounds right) and EV 3. That's long gone. I believe (the also now gone) CA "clean fuel reward" I linked to earlier was the replacement.

 

[getakey]

These new rates are horrible for us without solar. Off peak charging for me just went up 23%, and I'm not sure if the convenience of charging in the garage can beat out charging for 20 min once or twice a week at my local supercharger which is $.23 after 7pm. I will say at these rates I'd have second thoughts about buying an EV.

I hate PGE so much

View attachment 1006766

I have EV1-A, but looks like EV2 might be better. But the Peak time periods are different

 

[wwu123]

I'd been contemplating switching from E-TOU-C to the new E-ELEC rate, they and E-1 were roughly a wash after factoring $180 in additional fixed charges on E-ELEC. But I'm always suspicious when they float a new rate plan with low off-peak rates, and sure enough, E-ELEC is rapidly becoming the new EV-2A - i.e. entice them with a low off-peak rate, and then once you've hooked them in, jack up the off-peak rate faster than other plans.... (By applying the same absolute $ increase evenly across all TOU periods, they are increasing the off-peak rates by a far higher percentage than the peak rates.)

There's a reason they don't let NEM2/3 choose E-TOU-C, so I shouldn't easily let E-TOU-C go (on NEM1), like I stupidly left E-6 a few years back. And indeed, although E-TOU-C looks like it got an absolute $0.01 additional increase vs other plans, they did also increase the baseline credit by about $0.01 as well (have no idea why they define it as a baseline credit, rather than calling it Tier-1). So the actual % increases on E-TOU-C are closer to 13-17%, rather than 15-19% - so long as you are able to keep consumption within baseline (which many solar customers can do)....

 

[wwu123]

I'd been contemplating switching from E-TOU-C to the new E-ELEC rate, they and E-1 were roughly a wash after factoring $180 in additional fixed charges on E-ELEC. But I'm always suspicious when they float a new rate plan with low off-peak rates, and sure enough, E-ELEC is rapidly becoming the new EV-2A - i.e. entice them with a low off-peak rate, and then once you've hooked them in, jack up the off-peak rate faster than other plans.... (By applying the same absolute $ increase evenly across all TOU periods, they are increasing the off-peak rates by a far higher percentage than the peak rates.)

There's a reason they don't let NEM2/3 choose E-TOU-C, so I shouldn't easily let E-TOU-C go (on NEM1), like I stupidly left E-6 a few years back. And indeed, although E-TOU-C looks like it got an absolute $0.01 additional increase vs other plans, they did also increase the baseline credit by about $0.01 as well (have no idea why they define it as a baseline credit, rather than calling it Tier-1). So the actual % increases on E-TOU-C are closer to 13-17%, rather than 15-19% - so long as you are able to keep consumption within baseline (which many solar customers can do)....

Well, following up on my earlier intent, I finally did a proper rate analysis using a full 12 months of my actual detailed Green Button 15-minute consumption data downloaded from PG&E. And boy was it an eye-opener! For the past several years, I was lazy and never bothered to put this into a proper spreadsheet, as I couldn't figure out how to easily turn the long single column PG&E provides into a proper array. But turned out there's at least one or two ways to do it fairly simply. From there it was just a matter of pumping in the rate schedules for a few different rate plans and comparing.

Prior to this, I'd been using a very simple spreadsheet that only used the monthly totals from my annual true-up bill, when my prior TOU rates always just had two TOU periods, peak and off-peak. So I'd been ignoring part-peak usage numbers (they were lumped in with off-peak), and that made E-ELEC and EV2-A seem cheaper than they actually were.

As it turns out, PG&E's Rate Plan Comparison can be completely WRONG. Well, it was fairly accurate for my current E-TOU-C and for EV2-A (which always pegs about $100-200 higher annually). But E-ELEC projection was way off - it said it was about $180 cheaper than E-TOU-C, and thus a wash after 12 months x $15 in fixed charges. In actuality, it would be MORE than E-TOU-C, and then tack $180 in fees. They've already jacked up E-ELEC in its short life, that it's already the most expensive for me. I can't see where ANYONE would willingly switch to E-ELEC at this point - only for those forced onto it by NEM3....

 

[getakey]

what is E-ELEC?

 

[wwu123]

E-ELEC is a new TOU rate plan that was introduced about say, a year ago maybe? Basically all NEM3 customers are required to go on it. But they also pitch it as attractive to all-electric households. you "can" switch to it if you have an EV, a heat pump. or ESS batteries, even without solar or NEM3.

It's got the same TOU periods and structure as EV2-A, but the off-peak to peak swings are more modest, probably somewhere between E-TOU-C and EV2-A. However, it's also got a $15/month fixed charge (not minimum delivery charge, a fixed charge).

And so I thought it's costs would sit somewhere between E-TOU-C and EV2-A for me, esp that's what the Rate Plan Comparison suggested. Reality is, it would be the most expensive. I think they gave up on making it a middle ground EV2-A, and are instead going to stick it to the remaining new solar customers who weren't dissuaded by NEM3.

 

[cwerdna]

New PDFs have gone up for with slight rate changes that went into effect March 1, 2024. Examples below:

https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_EV2%20(Sch).pdf

https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-TOU-C.pdf (what I'm on since I don't charge at home)

https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-1.pdf

 

[cwerdna]

This happened today, 3/7/24:

New PG&E rate hike approved by CPUC

The Public Utilities Commission approved a PG&E rate hike Thursday that will add about $5 a month to the average bill – and it could begin as soon as next month.

www.nbcbayarea.com

PG&E to raise rates after regulators OK changes

PG&E rate increases that began in January now mean that the utility company has the dubious distinction of being the priciest power provider in California. But there’s more bad news.

sfstandard.com