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Phantom Braking
- Thread starter 2101Guy
- Start date
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
...and here's a case where phantom braking actually caused an accident:
teslamotorsclub.com
Phantom braking from FSD
I just received FSD for a week and was really exciting to enjoy it. Unfortunately, yesterday when I was using the FSD to turn left at an intersection, a phantom brake appeared suddenly and the car behind me failed to react and crashed into each other, causing a rear-end collision. I don't know...
teslamotorsclub.com
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
but you're somewhat stoned?
see the above post(s) discussing 'slammed' Regardless you seemed to dismiss it as not true 'braking' because it used regenerative braking, not the physical brakes. (which is not 100% true, anyway)
OncomingStorm
Member
in fairness since they say they were "using the FSD to turn left at an intersection" i'm assuming they are talking about FSD beta....and here's a case where phantom braking actually caused an accident:
Phantom braking from FSD
I just received FSD for a week and was really exciting to enjoy it. Unfortunately, yesterday when I was using the FSD to turn left at an intersection, a phantom brake appeared suddenly and the car behind me failed to react and crashed into each other, causing a rear-end collision. I don't know...
FWIW i am more than somewhat stoned, you should give it a go it's great haha
Watching people in this thread day you shouldn't use cruise control unless it's interstate is the most cringe fanboy crap imaginable.
This was not a serious problem when Teslas had radar and now it is.
Trying to downplay it is ridiculous
This was not a serious problem when Teslas had radar and now it is.
Trying to downplay it is ridiculous
Well you can modify what I wrote if you like, but what I said is it wasn’t slamming on da brakes man…
Phantom breaking wasn’t a problem until six months ago? Broooooooooooooooolol. You need to read up on your forums dude.
People have been complaining about phantom breaking since Nixon was in office.
Elon even proclaimed getting rid of the Radar would squash phantom breaking….
and guess what…. The driver following is at fault. Why is s/he so close that there is no time to react? Or was s/he gambling?...and here's a case where phantom braking actually caused an accident:
Phantom braking from FSD
I just received FSD for a week and was really exciting to enjoy it. Unfortunately, yesterday when I was using the FSD to turn left at an intersection, a phantom brake appeared suddenly and the car behind me failed to react and crashed into each other, causing a rear-end collision. I don't know...
OncomingStorm
Member
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Ummm…I copy/pasted your posts directly. No modification necessary
I’ve had phantom braking since I purchased my MY 18 months ago. I don’t know the timeframe of software development, though. It’s possible that it’s gotten worse for some drivers when radar was disabled but that’s impossible for me to say.
Either way, it’s irrelevant. Tesla has a poor, buggy implementation of a feature that other carmakers have been using flawlessly for 10 years. Even if you try to claim that the car is intentionally slowing down as designed, the rate of deceleration is far too fast, causing stress, temporary panic and discomfort for the occupants in the car.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
To my knowledge, despite many many many years of the occasional person here screaming OMG THE PHANTOM BRAKING, there's been zero accidents caused by it.
If it was an actual significant widespread problem that actually caused accidents there'd be actual evidence of it by now.
Instead it's just a bunch of random anecdotes.... which are themselves self selecting because the vast majority for whom everything is fine are much less inclined to randomly make videos saying "Here's a drive where nothing happened" or even "Here's where the car slowed down slightly- it was surprising, but watching the video in retrospect, not actually dangerous to anyone" which is what is usually actually happening.
You're confusing a few different things.
The public code is single stack.... and full AP (TACC plus autosteer) is only intended for use on divided highways with controlled access (ie no intersections, access is via on/off ramp). General TACC can be used most places without AS, though there are more wanrings/disclaimers for use off of highways (places with pedestrians/construction/etc).
The beta has a different stack for city streets driving, which includes quite different TACC behavior. It ONLY uses this stack for city driving, and drops back to the production stack on the highway.
Eventually the beta will use the city stack for everything, but not yet. And the public isn't using that stack for anything at all right now.
To my knowledge, the public stack does not use neural nets for anything other than perception. All decision making is still traditional code. So I'm unsure what you're really suggesting they do in that context.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
My guess is he was understandably expecting the Tesla to continue through the intersection and was checking to make sure there were no cars coming as he entered the intersection. You fail to comprehend the difference between a car being at fault and who caused the accident. Randomly stopping for no apparent reason is dangerous behavior.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
How many people on this thread don’t own a tesla? How many The tens to hundreds of phantom braking threads on TMC were started by people who don’t own a Tesla? And what’s the point of your post?
Yea, and I never said it didn’t break at all. Then you claimed it “seemed like” I did. You can seemed like all you want but seemed like isn’t said.
But it isn’t dangerous and most of the panic is caused by inattentiveness….
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
…and another thead.
teslamotorsclub.com
Extreme phantom braking event tonight. No TACC or Autosteer
I've read a lot of posts about phantom braking but it never really concerned me much because up until today I had only experience minor and infrequent events. Tonight, however, my car really scared me. It slammed on the brakes to the point that the wheels locked up slightly and the car...
teslamotorsclub.com
Hardly. See previous posts. And the post I linked. Not sure how/why you keep trying to justify and explain away faulty behavior by the car.
That link wasn’t even phantom breaking, it was a fault of the emergency breaking system; an extremely rare issue. I’m not explaining away any issues, I’m saying that they aren’t dangerous.…and another thead.
Extreme phantom braking event tonight. No TACC or Autosteer
I've read a lot of posts about phantom braking but it never really concerned me much because up until today I had only experience minor and infrequent events. Tonight, however, my car really scared me. It slammed on the brakes to the point that the wheels locked up slightly and the car...
Hardly. See previous posts. And the post I linked. Not sure how/why you keep trying to justify and explain away faulty behavior by the car.
And I’m pretty sure his car has radar….
I'm starting to hear it again - "you're not using the car right - the problem is you". Deja vu like with the UI threads.
@hatch We are asking if the car is dangerous due to phantom breaking. On that question it doesn’t matter how you use the car.
My point with the inattentiveness is that it would be much more jarring for the car to let off the gas and have regen kick in if you weren’t paying attention, hence the over the top posts about the car slamming on the brakes.
My point with the inattentiveness is that it would be much more jarring for the car to let off the gas and have regen kick in if you weren’t paying attention, hence the over the top posts about the car slamming on the brakes.
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