Phantom Braking

[ohmman]

I've had plenty of these events in my radar-equipped vehicles as well. I'll have a pure vision vehicle later this year and will see if it compares, but it's to the point where I am apprehensive about using it on the freeway. I nearly got rear-ended in the fast lane once and it really pissed off the person behind me.

I've also had it happen while using TACC and towing, which is a seriously freaky experience. My wife had an event on Interstate 80 in rural Nevada with nobody around while we had our Airstream, and it scared her enough that she will never use it with the camper again.

I'm not saying other manufacturers are better or worse, just saying that phantom braking is worth serious effort because it's scary and dangerous and it really undermines the huge benefit of TACC.

 

[2101Guy]

So much emotion over this issue. Take a step back and think logically. Do you experience Phantom Braking? If yes, report it to Tesla and hope they will fix it. If they do not fix it to your satisfaction, you have three options: 1) Continue to use FSD, AP, TACC and accept the braking. 2) Stop using FSD, AP, TACC. 3) Sell your Tesla and acquire a different manufacturer vehicle that meets your needs.

Venting online is cathartic, as is commiserating with others. But lashing out and attacking strangers is counterproductive and should be self-examined.

4)There is actually a 4th option, but for those who have successfully pursued this option, they are legally bound to not discuss...

 

[enemji]

No, I want TACC to function the same way every other auto manufacturer seems to be able to make their adaptive cruise control work. I don't even care about Autopilot maintaining the lane, I just want a constant speed with no random braking that slows down when it catches up to a car in front of it. I don't think that it's an outlandish request.


Then why are you even participating in this thread?


Ah that's why you're a troll, makes sense now. Also just as a note any chauffeur that drives as erratically as my M3 does when TACC is engaged on a 2 lane highway would be fired...just sayin.

I don’t want my adaptive cruise control to slow down when it approaches another vehicle. Real drivers actually speed up when they get closer as they get into the draft and then swing across lanes and pass them by.

 

[enemji]

Ok, from the link you posted:

”When approaching a large vehicle, keep a steady grip on your steering wheel. Larger vehicles create more air turbulence at highway speeds . . .”

ummm...yeah. When you drive past a large truck there are vortices caused by the truck that can affect your car. Anyone who's driven for more than a few weeks knows that. Fortunately for all of us they invented a device called a steering wheel that works quite well and dealing with these issues. It also works for wind gusts and avoiding obstacles.

The lord helped me by giving me a good brain. I thank him by using it every day.

Let me guess: you continue to do the 60mph+ even when driving by a vehicle that is standing still alongside the road.

 

[sleepydoc]

I don’t want my adaptive cruise control to slow down when it approaches another vehicle. Real drivers actually speed up when they get closer as they get into the draft and then swing across lanes and pass them by.

Let me guess: you continue to do the 60mph+ even when driving by a vehicle that is standing still alongside the road.

You know, if you’re wrong it’s ok to admit it rather than making up stuff that people never said.

 

[TomT]

But yeah. TESLA has an epidemic problem unique to it despite there being far less complaints on a far larger fleet.

Yeah, but it may be that people have come to expect phantom braking and are no longer reporting it as they feel it will not really do any good... I fit in this category. I used to report it but have given up. And yes, I still frequently have it.

 

[enemji]

Ah that's why you're a troll, makes sense now. Also just as a note any chauffeur that drives as erratically as my M3 does when TACC is engaged on a 2 lane highway would be fired...just sayin.

i am a troll because i have the luxury of a chauffeur driven vehicle?

 

[AndreP]

I'm dubious that reporting phantom braking accomplishes much to be honest, combatting the problem seems like playing whack-a-mole throughout the entire development process. As new objects etc are recognized, new false positives will be created and it will churn endlessly until we're done.

I don't think Tesla can go and solve phantom braking in specific areas or anything, it's likely more about constantly training the system to better recognize what is and isn't a threat

 

[enemji]

You know, if you’re wrong it’s ok to admit it rather than making up stuff that people never said.

Thanks DrPhil, but that was me saying, not saying what others are saying, or might be saying.

 

[Knightshade]

Yeah, but it may be that people have come to expect phantom braking and are no longer reporting it as they feel it will not really do any good... I fit in this category. I used to report it but have given up. And yes, I still frequently have it.

Reporting to whom, the NHTSA?

 

[DayTrippin]

I would love to have a dumb cruise control option. Could select TACC if I want and have TACC automatically work with AP or the you are a Fool Self Driving.

I would then love to see the take rate of dumb cruise vs TACC. On the downside for Tesla maybe there would be a lot less miles of info of running with TACC.

 

[Dan D.]

I'm dubious that reporting phantom braking accomplishes much to be honest, combatting the problem seems like playing whack-a-mole throughout the entire development process. As new objects etc are recognized, new false positives will be created and it will churn endlessly until we're done.

I don't think Tesla can go and solve phantom braking in specific areas or anything, it's likely more about constantly training the system to better recognize what is and isn't a threat

Reporting to whom, the NHTSA?

Certainly reporting your braking issues to the NHTSA is a good idea, they have made it clear they are actually investigating. Whether Tesla is investigating, or sees it as an issue at all is unclear.

Every complaint to the NHTSA seems to count, as only one complaint was needed to take down "Passenger Play". Not sure what they can do about AV braking issues, not specific to Tesla, but the more problems they hear about, the better.

Tesla Drivers Report Increase In Phantom Braking, NHTSA Involved

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is currently evaluating multiple complaints from Tesla drivers related to an increase in phantom braking.

insideevs.com

 

[qdeathstar]

so people should be able to predict the unpredictable. Got it.

It doesn’t slam on the breaks. It lets it foot off the accelerator and regen kicks in. There is plenty of time to react, at least in the videos I seen.

Well, if the car’s slamming on the brakes because there’s an obstacle in the way swerving to avoid would seem much more optimal than hitting it. At least to most people. you can go ahead and hit it if you like.

I thought we were talking about imaginary breaking… while the car is phantom breaking you should be able to instantly discern a real threat if one exists.

Actually yes. It’s a classic deconditioning or ‘boy who cried wolf’ response. After using Tesla’s cruise control for a while you learn that it will randomly brake for no reason.

So it’s predictable then?

 

[qdeathstar]

I have no doubt phantom breaking exists. And it’s annoying. But dangerous? Nah.

 

[sleepydoc]

It doesn’t slam on the breaks. It lets it foot off the accelerator and regen kicks in. There is plenty of time to react, at least in the videos I seen.

I’ve had several incidents where it slams on the brakes, and I can verify that it was actual braking because it was 5ºF outside and I had no regenerative braking (if I let my foot off the accelerator, the car would just coast.)

I thought we were talking about imaginary breaking… while the car is phantom breaking you should be able to instantly discern a real threat if one exists.

When you’re driving along and suddenly the car brakes hard, what’s your first thought? If the system was reliable it should be “uh oh, there’s something I missed and it’s braking to prevent an accident.” The problem is sometimes there actually is an obstacle Or other valid reason for braking. Now you’re left trying to discern whether each event is ‘real’ or not.

So it’s predictable then?

No. See above.

I have no doubt phantom breaking exists. And it’s annoying. But dangerous? Nah.

it’s very annoying to those in the car. Potentially dangerous to them if they have a cup of hot coffee that they spill on themselves, or if it makes them so car sick that they start vomiting. It’s also a hazard to other cars on the road.

 

[2101Guy]

This really says it all(while simultaneously making me laugh)
From the thread in this forum that says "i got 100 score, but still no beta access". Phantom braking is SO bad...its being ranked as unsafe (via scoring) by THE SAME SOFTWARE THAT NEEDS SAFETY.

Love to know how you reached 100%. I keep getting knocked down because of autopilot "breaking" & "following." Most al are the actions of AP, not me!

 

[2101Guy]

You cant make this up. hahahahahaha

 

[Big Dog]

Why would you do that? I've never done it in over 35 years of driving.

Me neither. I do however, ease over to the right side of the lane to reduce air buffeting.

 

[JulienW]

I’ve had several incidents where it slams on the brakes, and I can verify that it was actual braking because it was 5ºF outside and I had no regenerative braking (if I let my foot off the accelerator, the car would just coast.)....

While I agree Phantom Braking is a problem using the term "slams on the brakes" is hyperbole and invites doubt or criticism. You can say decelerates at an uncomfortable rate or uses friction brake unnecessarily but slams is engaging anti-lock and FCW.

 

[sleepydoc]

While I agree Phantom Braking is a problem using the term "slams on the brakes" is hyperbole and invites doubt or criticism. You can say decelerates at an uncomfortable rate or uses friction brake unnecessarily but slams is engaging anti-lock and FCW.

Agreed - it depends on how you define 'slams.' The brakes don't lock up but it's hard enough that everyone in the car lurches forward and passengers exclaim something to the effect of "jeez! what was that?"