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Phoenix, AZ Model 3 Performance Questions

asugrad

Member
Jun 10, 2019
13
14
Phoenix, AZ
Greetings!

I think my needs (about 60-80 miles daily in Gilbert-to-Scottsdale-Chandler, AZ on US-202 and US-101) will be met with an AWD LR, but for about $11K more, the Performance trim looks tempting.

(1) On the Tesla web site, the 18-inch wheel option for the Performance trim is greyed out. Is this possible to get this option? 20-inch looks cool, but I am a little concerned about efficiency and durability of the wheels. If you are a Performance trim owner in Phoenix area, what are your thoughts?

(2) On the other hand, I am wondering if I l would lose any braking performance by staying AWD. I do care about this number from safety perspective [my wife would drive this car too].

Thanks.
 

zachbiz

Member
May 7, 2019
7
14
San Diego
The performance trim is cool. But you are ultimately paying $10k for a faster 0-60, brakes and wheels (and some software).

18inch aero wheels will not fit over the current performance brakes as they are larger calipers and larger diameter rotors.

The brakes will not make you stop faster if your brakes are cold (commuting). This is a tire limitation in most cases usually especially with the strong regen braking helping. The rule of thumb for emergency stops is if the car activates the ABS from tire slip, the brakes are not the problem. Performance brakes are for thermal capacity and rigidity during track use.

Unless you plan on doing track days with the car, in a commuting setting the performance package really only nets you the status symbol and the thrill of waxing the floor mustangs and m3's and plenty of other expensive "fast" cars.
 
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Urbancowboy

Member
Jun 3, 2019
276
484
Nashville
I live in Gilbert and commute into Phoenix. It's about 60 miles a day.

Originally had a DP on a SR+ but then decided I wanted a LR. Ended up springing for the AWD and am really happy with the decision.

If I had $10k of money to blow on frivolous things, I would have gone Performance. But I don't, and the AWD is still one helluva car.

Also keep in mind your cost of ownership will be higher with a P, both for tires and insurance.
 

Schroeder0202

2019 Stealth/White/Black/20 inch Tsportline
May 8, 2019
385
210
IL
Greetings!

I think my needs (about 60-80 miles daily in Gilbert-to-Scottsdale-Chandler, AZ on US-202 and US-101) will be met with an AWD LR, but for about $11K more, the Performance trim looks tempting.

(1) On the Tesla web site, the 18-inch wheel option for the Performance trim is greyed out. Is this possible to get this option? 20-inch looks cool, but I am a little concerned about efficiency and durability of the wheels. If you are a Performance trim owner in Phoenix area, what are your thoughts?

(2) On the other hand, I am wondering if I l would lose any braking performance by staying AWD. I do care about this number from safety perspective [my wife would drive this car too].

Thanks.
Why even look at a LR AWD??? You live in Arizona. Get a LR RWD save the money, plus you can get the aero wheels instead.
The 20s on the performance model are only going to hurt your range due to super sticky tires etc. They are all fast and unless you just have money to waste it is not worth it. I have driven all models and yes, it is faster but def not worth the extra 10+ to get to 60 faster.
 
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Reactions: pilotSteve
Dec 2, 2017
358
339
Arizona
Greetings!

I think my needs (about 60-80 miles daily in Gilbert-to-Scottsdale-Chandler, AZ on US-202 and US-101) will be met with an AWD LR, but for about $11K more, the Performance trim looks tempting.

(1) On the Tesla web site, the 18-inch wheel option for the Performance trim is greyed out. Is this possible to get this option? 20-inch looks cool, but I am a little concerned about efficiency and durability of the wheels. If you are a Performance trim owner in Phoenix area, what are your thoughts?

(2) On the other hand, I am wondering if I l would lose any braking performance by staying AWD. I do care about this number from safety perspective [my wife would drive this car too].

Thanks.
I’m a Performance 3 owner in the Phoenix area.

1. Can’t get 18s or 19s from Tesla but aftermarket options are available. I wanted 19s but since Tesla didn’t offer I just stuck with the 20s. No problems yet and I’ve averaged 281Wh/mile vs 250Wh/mile rated since last September. I tend to like the right pedal.
2. I agree that if not going to the track you won’t notice a change in braking performance *if* running the same rubber - calipers better for brake fade on repeat braking but you won’t encounter that on your daily drive. Pilot 4S are amazingly sticky though.

It was a splurge, for sure, and maybe I would have been just fine with an AWD. If it puts a big dent in your wallet then I wouldn’t advise it, but I absolutely love the look and drive of the Performance. No regrets.
 
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WilliamG

Active Member
Apr 20, 2019
3,024
2,919
Seattle, WA
The difference between the AWD and Performances model in terms of performance in the 0-60 range is nothing short of staggering.

Heck, the difference between my 2016 Golf R (0-60 4.5 seconds stock - I was Stage 1) and my Performance 3 is staggering.
 

Jaywlker

Former Vendor
Nov 8, 2018
287
163
North Scottsdale
Greetings!

I think my needs (about 60-80 miles daily in Gilbert-to-Scottsdale-Chandler, AZ on US-202 and US-101) will be met with an AWD LR, but for about $11K more, the Performance trim looks tempting.

(1) On the Tesla web site, the 18-inch wheel option for the Performance trim is greyed out. Is this possible to get this option? 20-inch looks cool, but I am a little concerned about efficiency and durability of the wheels. If you are a Performance trim owner in Phoenix area, what are your thoughts?

(2) On the other hand, I am wondering if I l would lose any braking performance by staying AWD. I do care about this number from safety perspective [my wife would drive this car too].

Thanks.
Hey, ASUgrad!

I commute from North Scottsdale to downtown Phoenix M-F, about 55 miles roundtrip. I have 2 Performance Model 3s, and my wife drives an AWD Model 3.

Both versions are stupid, ridiculously fast. Both handle like they are on rails. The Performance version has the larger rotors and brake calipers, and stops on a dime. The AWD version stops great, but I think the Performance brakes slightly better. Maybe some of what I am sensing is the difference in tires? The PS4s on the Performance are notably "sticky" and adhere to the road.

I enjoy driving both versions. The $10-11k difference is a consideration. But it really comes down to personal preference. There are probably no significant differences in safety just based on hardware/brakes. The Model 3 is an extremely safe car, no matter the version or level of trim. Autopilot is included in either version and includes fabulous safety autonomy, along with 5 star crash ratings in EVERY category in U.S. gov't safety tests.

Most of my driving in my Performance version I do in "chill" mode to conserve the battery, and I get about 315 watt/hours per mile as compared to about 268 watt/hours per mile in the AWD version (also in "chill" mode most of the time).

If you'd like to compare versions, hit me up! You can test drive both versions at my casa in NoSco. Shoot me an email: [email protected]. If you'd like a longer test drive, I'll have a brand-new Model 3 Performance (red/white) on Turo beginning around June 24th.
 
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AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,422
11,318
San Diego
I think my needs (about 60-80 miles daily in Gilbert-to-Scottsdale-Chandler, AZ on US-202 and US-101) will be met with an AWD LR, but for about $11K more, the Performance trim looks tempting.

I'm not from Arizona...but I've been there a lot. :) I have a Performance.

As someone else said, if you're not planning on snow, and Tesla is still building LR RWD vehicles (would need to order "off-menu"), then consider that if you don't need the AWD. It's super-efficient. (However, I have no idea whether they are still building these vehicles to order.)

(1) On the Tesla web site, the 18-inch wheel option for the Performance trim is greyed out. Is this possible to get this option?

No, it's not possible in the US anymore. The 20" wheels are a concern for potholes. The tires on the 20" Performance model also reduce the range due to their extra stickiness. The tires are excellent, and incredibly expensive.

(2) On the other hand, I am wondering if I l would lose any braking performance by staying AWD. I do care about this number from safety perspective [my wife would drive this car too].

Yes, you will lose stopping power. The braking distance 60-0 is ~105 feet with PS4S tires, and ~125 feet with MXM4 18" tires. To be clear, it is the tires, not the brakes. The brake "feel" - nothing to do with stopping power - has been reported to be different too (this is due to the Performance brake pads & calipers presumably) - so if you care about that, take the test drive offered above - I tend to think it's not worth 10s of thousands of dollars (or whatever the price difference is) though, especially since you could just play around with different types of pads if you really wanted to!

It's a tradeoff - the PS4S tires handle and brake really well, but they cost you range and they cannot be used in freezing/snowy conditions. So if you're planning to go above the Mogollon Rim in winter time, you will need a separate set of wheels if you get the Performance. It's worth adding at this point that the Performance brake rotor hats also pose annoying (but solvable/solved) fitting issues when it comes to fitting aftermarket rims due to the "lip" - it limits your choice of wheels to some extent - not a big deal but you should know about it.

Basically, if all you care about is lowest cost and you don't need AWD, and you don't care about blistering acceleration, I would see whether it is possible to get an LR RWD vehicle, and then just buy a second set of wheels & tires for it (with PS4S rubber) if you want the lower braking distance. Again, that will hurt the range, but you'll still have a very efficient vehicle, and it will handle really well. Remember the LR RWD is MUCH more efficient than the AWD. It's really fantastically efficient and has excellent range. It isn't slow - but it is slower than the AWD, just like the AWD is slower than the Performance. It's still faster than most other vehicles on the road and you can position yourself in traffic however you would like due to the instant acceleration.

I just looked in the "ordering" forum. It looks like there is a wait-list of people who have ordered LR RWD vehicles. Tesla apparently builds them in batches, so you would have to wait for the delivery, but it looks like you can get one...eventually. I don't know exactly how the cost compares to the AWD, but I think it's ~$5k cheaper (check the other thread, probably in there somewhere...or talk to Tesla).

Rough "order of magnitude" for range on these vehicles with 100% charge:
LR RWD - 320 miles
AWD - 300 miles
Performance 260 miles

These are APPROXIMATE numbers, and can be A LOT lower or higher depending on your speed and conditions. And they will change if you put sticky tires on them. Anyway, the LR RWD in particular can really stretch to some fantastic range numbers in the right conditions.
 
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destructure00

Active Member
Mar 2, 2019
1,465
1,619
Scottsdale, AZ
It's nice to see so many AZ people :)

I bought the Performance for tracking. I was also tired of having the "2nd best" version of a car like I've had the last 2 or 3...I wanted the best, so I got it. That being said, even to track it, the stock brakes aren't good enough. Needs better brake pads at a minimum, and while the PS4S are great for the street, they really aren't that durable and get torn up pretty easily on the track, so a dedicated set of wheels and tires is on the list for the fall as well.

If you don't care about tracking the car I'd look seriously at whether or not the extra $11k is worth it for a spoiler, badge, and faster acceleration.
 
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Urbancowboy

Member
Jun 3, 2019
276
484
Nashville
Basically, if all you care about is lowest cost and you don't need AWD, and you don't care about blistering acceleration, I would see whether it is possible to get an LR RWD vehicle, and then just buy a second set of wheels & tires for it (with PS4S rubber) if you want the lower braking distance. Again, that will hurt the range, but you'll still have a very efficient vehicle, and it will handle really well. Remember the LR RWD is MUCH more efficient than the AWD. It's really fantastically efficient and has excellent range. It isn't slow - but it is slower than the AWD, just like the AWD is slower than the Performance. It's still faster than most other vehicles on the road and you can position yourself in traffic however you would like due to the instant acceleration.

They are still building the LR RWD "off menu" but unless OP can find an inventory car within the region he won't take delivery in time for the full $3750 tax credit. Custom orders for LR RWD are longer than 2 weeks.
 
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AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,422
11,318
San Diego
They are still building the LR RWD "off menu" but unless OP can find an inventory car within the region he won't take delivery in time for the full $3750 tax credit. Custom orders for LR RWD are longer than 2 weeks.

Sure, I figured as much. It wasn't clear what the timeframe was for the purchase. But presumably prices will adjust downwards somewhat after the end of this coming quarter (as they have historically), to maintain demand. I would assume that the LR RWD purchased next quarter would still end up being cheaper overall than an AWD this quarter, even without a price reduction. That being said, I have no idea what the current pricing is on that model.
 
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EXOTIC1

Member
Jan 23, 2014
465
164
MANY PLACES
Greetings!

I think my needs (about 60-80 miles daily in Gilbert-to-Scottsdale-Chandler, AZ on US-202 and US-101) will be met with an AWD LR, but for about $11K more, the Performance trim looks tempting.

(1) On the Tesla web site, the 18-inch wheel option for the Performance trim is greyed out. Is this possible to get this option? 20-inch looks cool, but I am a little concerned about efficiency and durability of the wheels. If you are a Performance trim owner in Phoenix area, what are your thoughts?

(2) On the other hand, I am wondering if I l would lose any braking performance by staying AWD. I do care about this number from safety perspective [my wife would drive this car too].

Thanks.

not sure of your timeframe however if you can wait till end of year i think you'll see some P3D for high 40's with low miles.
a new build now - (FSD) is about 60k or less with tax credits
the NEW price has dropped significantly and will trickle down
 
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Reactions: Jaywlker
Dec 2, 2017
358
339
Arizona
The AWD version stops great, but I think the Performance brakes slightly better. Maybe some of what I am sensing is the difference in tires? The PS4s on the Performance are notably "sticky" and adhere to the road.
Right, put PS4s on your wife’s AWD and I’ll bet she stops just as fast when the brakes are relatively cool, all things being equal.
 
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WilliamG

Active Member
Apr 20, 2019
3,024
2,919
Seattle, WA
It's nice to see so many AZ people :)

I bought the Performance for tracking. I was also tired of having the "2nd best" version of a car like I've had the last 2 or 3...I wanted the best, so I got it. That being said, even to track it, the stock brakes aren't good enough. Needs better brake pads at a minimum, and while the PS4S are great for the street, they really aren't that durable and get torn up pretty easily on the track, so a dedicated set of wheels and tires is on the list for the fall as well.

If you don't care about tracking the car I'd look seriously at whether or not the extra $11k is worth it for a spoiler, badge, and faster acceleration.

Aside from track mode, - noticeably faster acceleration on the street (people keep saying it’s “only” about a second faster to 60, but that’s a MASSIVE difference), spoiler, badge, lowered suspension, aluminum pedals (probably cost Tesla around $0.50), larger wheels, better tires, better brakes (which really are noticeably better on the street than the non-Performance brakes - can’t speak for tracking).

Also, potential for Ludicrous Mode upgrade. Hey, it could happen.

Anyway, I saw the value in it. Others may not. Track Mode is just the cherry on top, a cherry I may never enjoy.
 

Schroeder0202

2019 Stealth/White/Black/20 inch Tsportline
May 8, 2019
385
210
IL
Order a long range rwd and hope you get that phone call that myself and many other got at the end of last quarter trying to get you into a instock model for a discount. I ordered a 35k standard model and ended up getting a midrange msrp 51k for 10$ more. Yes 10$ to upgrade and take a in stock unit at the end of first quarter
 
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IraB

Member
Apr 27, 2019
84
136
Camas, WA
Just a side note on the tires here. I have driven cars with Michelin Pilot Sport tires of various generations for years.While I agree that driving in snow is asking for serious trouble, these tires are fine in temperatures as low as 20* F. They may not pull 1g in those temperatures, but you can certainly drive at reasonable speeds without feeling like you are going to slide off the road.
 

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