Poll: Now that they are increasing FSD from $3k to $5k, will you be purchasing it?

[ℬête Noire]

Imagine: it's 2028. You're driving in your Tesla down a desolate, straight rural road at 105 mph, using full EAP and FSD. Cop, hiding behind a hedge, sees you, clocks you at 105, starts following, turns on siren and flashing lights. A camera on the front of his cop car's grille zooms in on your license plate, looks it up in the cloud, sends a command to a state-law-approved system that all car manufacturers must abide by that in turns sends a signal to your car. Suddenly a loud alarm sounds in your car, and a warning dialog appears on your screen: 'Law enforcement orders you to immediately safely pull this car over. If you do not comply the car will automatically do so on its own in 10 . . . 9 . . . 8 . . . 7 . . " etc.

Or imagine it's 2028 you're driving your Tesla in a busy city. Maybe you are a minority, just driving along perfectly legally. Suddenly a cop is behind you, sirens and flashing lights, and the same warning appears on your screen.

This is the price of EAP, FSD, and the cloud-based, always-connected world that Tesla is also leading us into. All Tesla's reasons may right now be perfectly sensible (OTA software updates, detecting problems in the car in real time, notifying law enforcement of your car's whereabouts if it's stolen, etc) but at some point when the whole world catches up, so will the laws on the books, to take advantage of cars that are controlled by computer and the internet.

I'm not sure I like that world.

Although there is certainly large legislative hurdles to overcome for non-owner controlled remote-kill switches, and I'm uncomfortable with it, I'm not super clear on how this is worse than them just emptying a couple of clips into my rear window or radioing their comrades to lay out a spike belt/vehicle barricade.

 

[JeffK]

Suddenly a loud alarm sounds in your car, and a warning dialog appears on your screen: 'Law enforcement orders you to immediately safely pull this car over.

Just an FYI, but OnStar has been able to do this for nearly the last decade.
Stolen Vehicle Assistance Helps Stop Thieves

 

[ℬête Noire]

Just an FYI, but OnStar has been able to do this for nearly the last decade.
Stolen Vehicle Assistance Helps Stop Thieves

On Star is opt-in (and opting out of Tesla's system isn't easy, certainly if you want to maintain warranty coverage & service). Also that feature, like other lo-jack services, are still owner initiated.

But theoretically, yes. There hasn't been much of a push legislatively to have LEO initiated use of those features but relatively low % of cars on the road with it may have some bearing on that.

 

[d21mike]

Imagine: it's 2028. You're driving in your Tesla down a desolate, straight rural road at 105 mph, using full EAP and FSD. Cop, hiding behind a hedge, sees you, clocks you at 105, starts following, turns on siren and flashing lights. A camera on the front of his cop car's grille zooms in on your license plate, looks it up in the cloud, sends a command to a state-law-approved system that all car manufacturers must abide by that in turns sends a signal to your car. Suddenly a loud alarm sounds in your car, and a warning dialog appears on your screen: 'Law enforcement orders you to immediately safely pull this car over. If you do not comply the car will automatically do so on its own in 10 . . . 9 . . . 8 . . . 7 . . " etc.

Or imagine it's 2028 you're driving your Tesla in a busy city. Maybe you are a minority, just driving along perfectly legally. Suddenly a cop is behind you, sirens and flashing lights, and the same warning appears on your screen.

This is the price of EAP, FSD, and the cloud-based, always-connected world that Tesla is also leading us into. All Tesla's reasons may right now be perfectly sensible (OTA software updates, detecting problems in the car in real time, notifying law enforcement of your car's whereabouts if it's stolen, etc) but at some point when the whole world catches up, so will the laws on the books, to take advantage of cars that are controlled by computer and the internet.

I'm not sure I like that world.

It's 2028. Your Tesla is driving you down a desolate straight rural road at 105 mph, using full EAP and FSD. Cop, hiding behind a hedge, sees you, clocks you at 105 mph, starts following and via the cloud determines your Tesla is doing ALL the driving which is now legal for self driving cars to drive at 105 mph on this highway and allows you to proceed.

 

[JeffK]

It's 2028. Your Tesla is driving you down a desolate straight rural road at 105 mph, using full EAP and FSD. Cop, hiding behind a hedge, sees you, clocks you at 105 mph, starts following and via the cloud determines your Tesla is doing ALL the driving which is now legal for self driving cars to drive at 105 mph on this highway and allows you to proceed.

haha who knows, it could just as likely be:

It's 2028. You drive your Tesla down a desolate straight rural road at 105 mph... and Tesla automatically charges your credit card on file due to violation of local laws and agreements with local govt. Saves on paperwork, a human cop, etc

We rich people just call that a premium toll road.

 

[Moderatefan]

Setting the bar for FSD at "average driver" is a fundamental error. Clearly you aren't in the mood to believe me about anything so you'll do yourself a favour to go find someone else to explain to you why.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/13069a-ads2.0_090617_v9a_tag.pdf
Read page 8 Fallback(Minimal Risk Condition) and take your complaints to NTHSA. Hope they can explain to you what they mean.

 

[ℬête Noire]

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/13069a-ads2.0_090617_v9a_tag.pdf
Read page 8 Fallback(Minimal Risk Condition) and take your complaints to NTHSA. Hope they can explain to you what they mean.

Well I guess they'd be a lot better choice than you to explain it because you haven't a clue what that page is even talking about if you think it is any way relevant where you're trying to apply it. :/

 

[JeffK]

Well I guess they'd be a lot better choice than you to explain it because you haven't a clue what that page is even talking about if you think it is any way relevant where you're trying to apply it. :/

That page does cite something important that most people need t hear and that the car needs only enough redundancy to be able to pull over to the side of the road if a sensor stops functioning.

Like a human suddenly going blind, your trip is pretty much over.

 

[ℬête Noire]

That page does cite something important that most people need t hear and that the car needs only enough redundancy to be able to pull over to the side of the road if a sensor stops functioning.

Like a human suddenly going blind, your trip is pretty much over.

That's a tangent. A non-sequitur from this context and no way undermines/refutes what I've been talking about, even prior.

P.S. It even refers to return manual control.

 

[JeffK]

That's a tangent. A non-sequitur from this context and no way undermines/refutes what I've been talking about, even prior.

P.S. It even refers to return manual control.

On the contrary I mentioned this earlier Poll: Now that they are increasing FSD from $3k to $5k, will you be purchasing it? which you disagreed with.

It also says:

In cases of higher automation in which a human driver may not be available, the ADS must be able to fallback into a minimal risk condition without the need for driver intervention...
A minimal risk condition will vary according to the type and extent of a given failure, but may include automatically bringing the vehicle to a safe stop, preferably outside of an active lane of traffic.

 

[ℬête Noire]

On the contrary I mentioned this earlier Poll: Now that they are increasing FSD from $3k to $5k, will you be purchasing it? which you disagreed with.

You might want scroll down to read my explanation of disagreement. Because it isn't what you seem to think it is.

It also says:

...stuff that is still tangental to the context.

 

[TaoJones]

What are your thoughts/opinions?

Well, sure - it's worth more now, right? When it goes up to $10K, those people will get an even better deal!!!

/s

PS: As one of the saps who already gave Tesla an interest-free $3,000 loan for this, well, unless and until they offer refunds, presumably I am now somewhat involuntarily committed to the endeavor.

 

[Chedawg]

I guess I’m confused what price you’re paying in your scenario...

The loss of the ability to lead cops into high speed chases?

 

[JeffK]

I guess I’m confused what price you’re paying in your scenario...

The loss of the ability to lead cops into high speed chases?

Well, not to take the thread into a tangent. Traffic stops aren't always cozy and can lead to unnecessary death. Especially if the traffic stop wasn't legal in the first place (which happens quite often). We can see multiple examples of this in the news.

If we have a world where a person in authority can both profile you and remotely stop your vehicle, it could lead to abuse by a few bad apples.

 

[Chedawg]

Well, not to take the thread into a tangent. Traffic stops aren't always cozy and can lead to unnecessary death. Especially if the traffic stop wasn't legal in the first place (which happens quite often). We can see multiple examples of this in the news.

If we have a world where a person in authority can both profile you and remotely stop your vehicle, it could lead to abuse by a few bad apples.

I'll try to similarly avoid any tangent and let me say I'm completely with you that we should be concerned for the lack of oversight and accountability for law enforcement abuse in the US today. Just doubtful that the ability for cops to pull us over via overriding our automated cars will make for more risk. It won't help with racial profiling to be sure but it shouldn't make the problem worse.

If anything the knowledge that they're pulling a car over that most likely will be able to prove if it was an illegitimate stop by showing proof the car wasn't breaking any laws (including 360 degree camera footage of said behavior and subsequent police interaction) will make them more likely to behave lawfully.

I also think it could reduce the FUD factor that IMO results in some of these police shooting tragedies. You have police officers who in some (bad apple) cases are going into these interactions scared, whether that's through an us against them mentality, lack of sufficient training on what qualifies as an appropriate situation to respond with deadly force, or whatever, if you eliminate the several thousand pound car as one of their perceived threats it hopefully will reduce their fear and on average, lead to a safer encounter.

If we reach the point where running from the cops needs to be on the table to protect ourselves lawfully then we've got much bigger problems to tackle, especially when it's as simple as disabling the SIM on the car to do so. At that point I need the bullet proof body armor and Mad Max weaponry to have a chance against a militarized police force

 

[Robert831]

There needs to be more than 2 answers to this question. Such as: I would have bought it anyway. I would not have bought it anyway. I plan to buy it after taking delivery despite the added cost. I already bought it.

 

[Altes]

The feature they roll out in August

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

 

[JamesPCowboy]

Just picked up my model 3 last week, amazing car !!

Disappointed in the price increase to say the least. Hemorrhaging cash, I understand the desire for more cash now.

We added eap and passed on fsd, 4K seems reasonable, 5k ... meh, we’ll have to see what features it really delivers. Would be nice to be grandfathered into 4K upgrade price.

How about this, 5k would be worth it if Tesla owned liability instead of the driver when FSD is enabled !

 

[JeffK]

How about this, 5k would be worth it if Tesla owned liability instead of the driver when FSD is enabled !

I don't know if Tesla would volunteer themselves as other companies have done, but Elon has said if local laws say they have to be responsible then they will be.

 

[Jbailey]

I ordered the FSD, not just because of the relative cost of adding it later but also because it is going to be a gradual roll out. I think the enhanced self driving (ESD) is going to max out soon with ability not much more than AP1 which is excellent. The FSD people will continue to get downloads continuing on where ESD left off. The excitement of continued improvements is one of the coolest things about owning a Tesla and I don't want to miss out.

I also feel that Tesla will feel obligated to upgrade the hardware if it turns out more or better sensors/ processors is needed for people who pay for FSD up front. This could potentially be an expensive upgrade and Tesla may not feel obliged to do this for ESD only purchasers, Who knows but I am not taking the chance.

An extra 3k is not huge relative expense considering what I am already paying for the performance upgrade and I don't want to limit the capability of a substantial investment.

Finally I can add the 3k onto the price of the car upfront and with my business, I am allowed to write off a portion of the monthly payment as a business expense. This would likely not be possible at a later date.

In the past I have felt that not getting the FSD was the right thing, given the time and effort it was taking to just reach parity with AP1. I feel that Tesla is past that now, and those who purchase FSD at this time will be glad they did.