Looks like a 2018 Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid to me. One member circled side vents on front door of supposed Mission E and compared it to current Panamera to show the difference, but if you look at the 2018 Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid, then you'll see the exact same side vents. That model, specifically. The lesser Panamera models don't have the same side vents.
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Porsche’s Mission E caught testing alongside Tesla vehicles
- Thread starter Swift
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The door panels still look completely different. The mule has a huge embossed element at the bottom starting at the vent running all he way to the the tire, while Panamera has several smaller design lines.
Also people in the German rum have seen it and confirmed it is not a Panamera.
Porsche: Mission e Concept • TFF Forum - Tesla Fahrer & Freunde
Also people in the German rum have seen it and confirmed it is not a Panamera.
Porsche: Mission e Concept • TFF Forum - Tesla Fahrer & Freunde
Yes, I remember. Back then I owned two Porsche, a 964 and a 993. Porsche invented me to a focus group to evaluate pricing and concepts for the Boxster. I later thought that is odd timing since the car was certainly already almost finalised when that happened. Everyone was a Porsche owner and all of us were ready to buy any of the options at the $40,000 price point. The delivered car was much, much less attractive a proposition than were any of the concepts we saw.
Tesla certainly has issues, but nothing so cynical as the competitors. I think we expect far more from Tesla because they're already so wonderful.
The door panels still look completely different. The mule has a huge embossed element at the bottom starting at the vent running all he way to the the tire, while Panamera has several smaller design lines.
Also people in the German rum have seen it and confirmed it is not a Panamera.
Porsche: Mission e Concept • TFF Forum - Tesla Fahrer & Freunde
Well if it is the production version of the concept then it's an epic fail. It's proportions and styling are so much like a Panamera that I wouldn't even consider buying it. If it looked remotely like the concept then I would have been intrigued. Kinda like how the spy photos of the production Toyota Supra Turbo were such a let down compared to the concept. My ultimate dream car as a kid and it burst my bubble when I saw the spy photos.
When will people learn not to trust "concept cars"? Seriously. Concept cars don't have to face any of the real issues that actual production vehicles do, so that they can make them look like works of art.
And that's all that they are, and will ever be. Actual production vehicles, however, are constrained by the laws of physics, the laws of the countries the manufacturer wants to sell in, production limitations, and economics.
As a general rule: the more "radical" the styling looks, the more its aero drag will be (unless it's "radical" in terms of looking like an airplane wing and/or fuselage, with a minimum of "design flourishes", minimum of wheel exposure, etc). Teslas are about as streamlined as you can actually get while still looking like a "car"; beyond that you have to start going to Aptera-level extremes for further improvement. The more its aero drag is (aka, the worse it is than a Tesla), the worse its range will be for a given pack size (aka, a given price). And the smaller the EV components' scale of mass production, the worse of a buy they'll get on a given power output and energy capacity in their EV components. The scale in turn comes from the amount of money put into investment, which for most manufacturers is far, far less than Tesla has put in.
In short, pretty much everyone else starts out at a price/range disadvantage to Tesla (less money invested), and the more they go for "conventional" or even "artistic" styling, the worse it gets for them.
And that's all that they are, and will ever be. Actual production vehicles, however, are constrained by the laws of physics, the laws of the countries the manufacturer wants to sell in, production limitations, and economics.
As a general rule: the more "radical" the styling looks, the more its aero drag will be (unless it's "radical" in terms of looking like an airplane wing and/or fuselage, with a minimum of "design flourishes", minimum of wheel exposure, etc). Teslas are about as streamlined as you can actually get while still looking like a "car"; beyond that you have to start going to Aptera-level extremes for further improvement. The more its aero drag is (aka, the worse it is than a Tesla), the worse its range will be for a given pack size (aka, a given price). And the smaller the EV components' scale of mass production, the worse of a buy they'll get on a given power output and energy capacity in their EV components. The scale in turn comes from the amount of money put into investment, which for most manufacturers is far, far less than Tesla has put in.
In short, pretty much everyone else starts out at a price/range disadvantage to Tesla (less money invested), and the more they go for "conventional" or even "artistic" styling, the worse it gets for them.
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Good observation. I think you’re right about the Panamera as a phantom concept.
Does anyone know if the home charger for my S will be compatible with Porsche’s E? Would like to have both.
Olds442
Member
An electric 911 will have to wait according to: Electric Porsche 911 Not Coming For At Least A Decade
But the next Macan will be electric, probably on the Audi EV platform to lower cost and I can imagine the next Cayenne and Panamera to become electric, too, if people buy the Mission E in large enough quantities (or whatever it's real name will be).
But the decision of making the Macan, Porsche's best selling model electric is good. VAG has the unique opportunity to go full EV on all it's brands at once, which other car makers seem a bit more reluctant to do (Nissan Infinity for example) and therefore get good supply deals from cell suppliers, as well as reduced indirect costs on each vehicle, through platform sharing.
And knowing VAG, there will be an incredibly good and cheap luxury electric VW, that no one but the Chinese will buy. Really looking forward to that car!
Sean Wagner
Member
I'm still waiting for information that clarifies where the batteries are going to come from. Meanwhile:
Battery suppliers struggle to keep up with demand for Porsche's Panamera [hybrid] [Reuters, Dec 2017]
...
“At present we are able to meet customer demand well,” he said in an interview, adding about 8,000 Panamera hybrids would be built this year. “But there are limits because we are dependent on the capacities of battery suppliers.”
“As a buyer we had originally projected different volumes (of battery systems needed),” Rupp said. “The effects can be seen in longer delivery times of currently 3-4 months for Panamera hybrid models.”
...
Battery suppliers struggle to keep up with demand for Porsche's Paname
If the cells are to be sourced from Europe, and if I remember correctly:
- LG and Samsung SDi building modest sized factories,
- Bosch saying since a while they will invest billions [they do have the firepower], and select a site in 2018
- Northvolt planning a Gigafactory in Sweden
Otherwise, it's probably high time to dial in supplies from Panasonic, Korea, or top Chinese cell manufacturers like CATL.
Battery suppliers struggle to keep up with demand for Porsche's Panamera [hybrid] [Reuters, Dec 2017]
...
“At present we are able to meet customer demand well,” he said in an interview, adding about 8,000 Panamera hybrids would be built this year. “But there are limits because we are dependent on the capacities of battery suppliers.”
“As a buyer we had originally projected different volumes (of battery systems needed),” Rupp said. “The effects can be seen in longer delivery times of currently 3-4 months for Panamera hybrid models.”
...
Battery suppliers struggle to keep up with demand for Porsche's Paname
If the cells are to be sourced from Europe, and if I remember correctly:
- LG and Samsung SDi building modest sized factories,
- Bosch saying since a while they will invest billions [they do have the firepower], and select a site in 2018
- Northvolt planning a Gigafactory in Sweden
Otherwise, it's probably high time to dial in supplies from Panasonic, Korea, or top Chinese cell manufacturers like CATL.
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
Don't forget the new Daimler "Gigafactory" (ok, "Giga" in European terms
) being built in Kamenz/Germany:Daimler unveils its own new battery Gigafactory for electric vehicles
Yeah, obviously. I pointed out why the car in the spy shot oe not look like the Panmera.
Sean Wagner
Member
Don't forget the new Daimler "Gigafactory" (ok, "Giga" in European terms
Thank you, but a) I think Daimler will not supplying Porsche, and b) as far as I remember, Kamenz is a site for battery pack assembly, not cell manufacturing. I tried to verify this, but stopped digging after a minute or two.
Maybe the following was mentioned here already, but it's interesting:
[Date: seems fairly recent going by the one comment]
Interview mit dem Porsche-Vorstandsvorsitzenden Oliver Blume
«Der Mission E ist ein echter Porsche»
...
Welche Stückzahlen erwarten Sie bei den voll elektrischen Fahrzeugen?
Beim Mission E rechnen wir zum Start mit rund 20'000 Fahrzeugen pro Jahr. Wir analysieren ständig unsere Märkte und das Interesse ist riesig. Vielleicht fällt die tatsächliche Produktionszahl dann gar etwas höher aus.
...
Interview mit dem Porsche-Boss Oliver Blume über den E-Porsche
Gist of above quote: planned production is 20'000 Mission E's per annum initially. So Porsche may actually be planning on buying the cells in Asia like Tesla does for an output of 100'000 Model S & X's combined.
I think those cars will be gone in no time.
Maybe Tesla can talk to Panasonic about 800 volt battery packs that Porsche have in mind.
"Michael says Porsche is working directly with battery makers LG and Panasonic on chemistry and packs, and he expects lithium-ion efficiency to "improve by up to 5 percent per year in the foreseeable future." Paired with Porsche's 800-volt charger, the carmaker says Mission E owners will get 400 kilometers of range in 20 minutes."
"Michael says Porsche is working directly with battery makers LG and Panasonic on chemistry and packs, and he expects lithium-ion efficiency to "improve by up to 5 percent per year in the foreseeable future." Paired with Porsche's 800-volt charger, the carmaker says Mission E owners will get 400 kilometers of range in 20 minutes."
Sean Wagner
Member
Interesting.
That would tie in neatly with LG's new battery factory going online by the end of 2018 in Wroclaw/Poland [capacity 100'000 vehicle packs per annum]. See:
Largest factory of electric vehicles batteries in Europe will be located in Poland | Industrial Development Agency | 12/10/2017
That would tie in neatly with LG's new battery factory going online by the end of 2018 in Wroclaw/Poland [capacity 100'000 vehicle packs per annum]. See:
Largest factory of electric vehicles batteries in Europe will be located in Poland | Industrial Development Agency | 12/10/2017
Having owned my X for almost two years and 48,000 miles, in my view the falcon wing doors are one of the best features. It makes it so easy to get my youngest daughter or our dog into the second row, and let older kids access the rear. And I can stand there protected from the rain while buckling my daughter in.
Porsche Spied Taking Over A Snowy Road To Test Mission E And 911
One can also clearly see it is not a hatch like the Panamera.
Size comparison.
One can also clearly see it is not a hatch like the Panamera.
Size comparison.
Sean Wagner
Member
I can understand it turned out to be a stupid idea because of costs and technical issues that needed to be resolved, but I love the FWD's too. The X could not have been the car it is today without its doors.
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