Take a look at highway safety statistics, deaths per km driven, etc. Germany's numbers are better than those of the US
Yes, plus speed safety is relative. Going 40 while everyone else is doing 65-70 is quite dangerous.
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Yes, plus speed safety is relative. Going 40 while everyone else is doing 65-70 is quite dangerous.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
One conversation is about jealousy for being able to drive that fast.
The other conversation is about knowing how to drive in the first place.
We here in the US do not believe in knowing how to drive so Darwin takes over.
The other conversation is about knowing how to drive in the first place.
We here in the US do not believe in knowing how to drive so Darwin takes over.
dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
As a non-native I wouldn't dare say that in public... but I guess I can agree with you in public
bluenation
Member
ah, so force the environment to meet the compromised specs of the Tesla ?
porsche's actions are totally reasonable. i still wish they'd experiment with fast EVs, but PHEV's to me are still super exciting. I dont have EV-only bias
stevejust
T E S L A x (≡)
I've got a classic car for you to get excited about in my garage. It's SEVEN YEARS OLD. Ancient.
jgs
Active Member
Of course, exactly whose specs are compromised depends on what the requirements are in the market they're trying to reach. If the primary market is people who can legally drive 155 mph on the open road, or who for some reason desire a car that could do so even though they'll never drive it that fast, then Porsche's choice makes sense. OTOH if the primary market is everyone else, then Tesla's specs might not be so very "compromised".ah, so force the environment to meet the compromised specs of the Tesla ?
I suspect the latter market is (much) larger, but I see the fork Porsche is caught on. Their brand identity is all about the former market, whether or not that comprises the majority of their revenue.
stevejust
T E S L A x (≡)
The greatest irony in all of this is that Germany -- a country that has so much solar power and is well known for automotive engineering can't seem to get it together to make a decent BEV (I haven't driven the eGolf yet, but I didn't like the i3) -- but here in the US where we've got utilities and ALEC fighting the proliferation of solar power in several states at the same time, we've got Tesla.
It really doesn't make any sense at all because it's so inconsistent.
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dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
You're confusing an OLD car with a classic car.
That said, I'd still take my Model S over any classic car I can think of...
WRT German highway speeds. Yes, there are places where there is no speed limit. But many places are limited to 70-80 mph and traffic is almost always bad.
So even if your car could do 200 mph the times you could use it would be somewhat limited. I have lived in Germany for years and a nice cruising speed is around a 100 mph when there is no speed limit. The Tesla can do that easily as far as I know.
So even if your car could do 200 mph the times you could use it would be somewhat limited. I have lived in Germany for years and a nice cruising speed is around a 100 mph when there is no speed limit. The Tesla can do that easily as far as I know.
ah, so force the environment to meet the compromised specs of the Tesla ?
porsche's actions are totally reasonable. i still wish they'd experiment with fast EVs, but PHEV's to me are still super exciting. I dont have EV-only bias
Obviously we shouldn't force the environment to meet the compromised specs of a Tesla. We must fight the urge to set different standards, I agree.
That said, I am not AT ALL convinced Porsche's claim is completely accurate (in isolation, there are of course points there) or the real reason why they aren't doing an EV. First of all, I'm pretty sure one could drive spiritedly from Frankfurt and Munich, and if they need more range, the supercharger network in Germany isn't that bad - not mentioning it at all in the quote was a big omission and I think it was intentional too.
I wouldn't put it past Porsche that the quote had been carefully crafted in some PR workshop to give Tesla enough credit to not sound like ignorant asses and then go on to belittle it in a way that would make Porsche's own failings seem warranted and their approach even commendable. Namely, that of not being able or not wanting to deliver a car like Model S yet (because ICE is what they're great at and they can't or don't want to endanger that gravy train).
You're confusing an OLD car with a classic car.
Agree that OLD does not necessarily mean classic. Some cars are classic as they roll of the assembly-line, and if you look at his signature, you have to agree that this is one like that...
SebastianR
Active Member
Not to wade too far into politics, but I found that many countries have their own blind-spots: just like there is no way to have a rational discussion of speed limits / car engineering in Germany, you can't discuss second amendment issues / gun safety in the US or the topic of Maple Syrup in Canada...
From that perspective I'm not at all amazed that Germans are stubborn petrol heads even if that's inconsistent.
What I find curious is the notion that racing a BEV against an ICE vehicle is increasingly considered "cheating" - loads of disappointed Hellcat owners don't consider it a fair race - just like racing a F16 against an ICE vehicle is considered unfair. This shows me how far we came: from the slow Golf-cart to "electrics win anytime anyways" is a long way...
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What the heck are you talking about?! Maple syrup doesn't kill people and doesn't fit in the same category as guns and excessive speed! There is ZERO argument against REAL! Maple Syrup. Now... the imitation crud sugar solutions that they serve at Denny's and half of the other breakfast joints in the US are basically a prescription for diabetes and obesity.
Sheesh!
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
Seb,
I see what you mean when you talk about touching the third rail of syrup when talking with Canadians.... I had no idea
Sincerely,
Closed Minded Gun Toting (or at least machine-gun owning) American
I see what you mean when you talk about touching the third rail of syrup when talking with Canadians.... I had no idea
Sincerely,
Closed Minded Gun Toting (or at least machine-gun owning) American
SebastianR
Active Member
Well played, Sir!
Seb,
I see what you mean when you talk about touching the third rail of syrup when talking with Canadians.... I had no idea
Sincerely,
Closed Minded Gun Toting (or at least machine-gun owning) American
Thanks!
I totally realize now that I didn't disclose I'm one of these speed loving lunatics from Germany (at least that's where I'm from) - thanks for taking this all with good humor.
Seb,
I see what you mean when you talk about touching the third rail of syrup when talking with Canadians.... I had no idea
In every culture there are some things that just aren't touchable.
Oddly enough I tried to find a stereotype for Danes and there isn't much. Meatballs, rye bread and gherkins?- - - Updated - - -
Oh! you should have said that you're a kraut. I can say that because I'm a first generation Canadian of German parents.
Truthfully I was raised more on sausages, sauerkraut and potato salad than I was on maple syrup. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the stuff... but it's a bit too sweet.In every culture there are some things that just aren't touchable.
As a Dane I feel comfortable saying that a better stereotype would be hard drinking, hard working, rye bread eating, party monsters with a sick sense of humor
back on topic when would that mystery Porsche even be available? 2035?
I'm not so sure I agree with you. Some probably already consider "2008 Tesla Roadster #87, Signature Green" a classic. It's definitely already a collectible, IMO.You're confusing an OLD car with a classic car.
dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
But that was my point, brianman : being "old" and being "classic" are not necessarily correlated. There are many old cars that are just that, old. Sorry, a Ford Focus from 1994 is not a classic. Yet there are cars that are 10 or more years younger and just like the Roadster you mention, they definitely are.
bluenation
Member
Seb,
I see what you mean when you talk about touching the third rail of syrup when talking with Canadians.... I had no idea
Sincerely,
Closed Minded Gun Toting (or at least machine-gun owning) American
AR or Kalash?
1911 vs Glock?
Victorinox or Wenger?
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