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Porsche to build charging network, Tesla compatible

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by sandpiper, Oct 3, 2016.

  1. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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  2. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    Tesla compatible with an adapter.

    You left that part out of the title. :)
     
  3. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    #3 sandpiper, Oct 3, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
    Yes... I suppose I did. I took the wording to imply that the adapter was something minor, like the J1772 to Tesla adapter, but who knows?

    The fact that he even mentions Tesla carries a bit of an implication that they might like to charge Porsches (and VWs) at the Tesla chargers as well. That's something that no other manufacturer has even hinted at yet and it's a very positive sign.

    I expect that we're going to see Tesla chargers and cars going to 800V in the near future as well. It's the only practical way to increase charge rate further while keeping the charge cable to a manageable size.
     
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  4. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    I mean, I'm all for more chargers. And I guess VW Group will use this as part of their required activities b/c of their diesel scandal, but I would have thought that it would be a better/more effective expenditure to use the Tesla connector and make their cars Supercharger compatible. But then, maybe that is what they will do. The Tesla connector is basically a J1772 + modifications for DC charging. No reason why VW couldn't work with Tesla to make a compatible messaging system and let both cars use the other's chargers. I am assuming that if the build their connector to support 800 V charging, they will be able to handle the Superchargers' 400 Volts.
     
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  5. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

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    I doubt it. That seems too lightweight to me. It would probably be more like the size and shape of the CHAdeMo adapter.
     
  6. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    I don't know about that. By 2020 Tesla will have a boatload of superchargers out there. It would be very easy for Porsche to decide to make their chargers very closely compatible - excepting that they would have to recognize what maximum voltage the attached vehicle can handle. There's no technical challenge there; it's just a design choice and I don't see how it would benefit Porsche to come up with something different yet again.

    The Chademo adapter is a different animal because it contains some active circuitry as required to bridge protocols.
     
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  7. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

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    But just the cable on my CHAdeMo adapter is super thick without even getting to the circuitry in the handle -- it's about the same thickness as the supercharger cable and longer than the J1772 adapter - and that's only the cable portion without either end. Why have that bulky, heavy thick cable in between if it's not needed? I think they need it because it's difficult to transition all those amps twice over a short span without great risk.
     
  8. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    Recognition of maximum voltage the car can take won't be a problem unless I'm very confused - as I understand it the car is telling the DCFC unit what voltage and amperage to feed it anyway.

    If you get into a situation where some stalls are capable of 800V and others aren't, that might be a problem for the 800V EVs, though - it's doubtful that they could gain anything from a 400V stall.

    At this point, I'm thinking this announcement is Porsche's commitment to the next generation CCS system that the group has been working on, and it'll be usable by Tesla through something like the Chadwick
    CHAdeMO adapter.
     
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  9. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    I think they also need to be able to mechanically lower the the bulky/heavy Chademo cable and adapter on the ground so as not to damage the Tesla charge port with the overhung weight. The Tesla supercharger is designed to minimize the hanging load on the port.
     
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  10. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    An 800V car could be charged on a 400V charger simply by flipping a few contactors to half the number of battery modules in a series connect set. It's no technical challenge but does require a more hardware in the battery pack.
     
  11. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    Unless they are going to use a new chemistry, I don't see how they can do 250 miles in 15 minutes without damaging the battery. I suppose they could do it with something like a 200 kWh battery, but that seems a bit much.
     
  12. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    From that article, quote:
    -----------------------
    Porsche is taking the lead developing such a charger for the whole VW Group. Porsche boss Oliver Blume told Top Gear: “We are in contact with other manufacturers and suppliers around the world to build a fast-charging network. Everybody has the same need.

    “It sounds easy but getting the details agreed is hard. We already have the clear technical concept. It can even work with Teslas, with an adapter.”
    --------------------------

    That quote does not say that the VW group will build a "fast-charging network". It only says that Porsche is "in contact with other manufacturers and suppliers around the world to build a fast-charging network."

    That is not the same thing as "VW group will build a fast-charging network".

    I think Porsche, on behalf of the VW group, is initiating discussions with other car companies and EV charging "suppliers" about how to build a fast-charging network. VW wants to develop an industry consortium to do it. It doesn't mean they will do it themselves.

    Of course if they could just swallow their pride and join forces with Tesla to expand the existing Supercharger network that would make the most sense. But VW will not do that.
     
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  13. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    I think that as a German company they have to use CCS chargers don't they? The Tesla adapter, I assume, is the oft rumored CCS adapter from Tesla.
     
  14. gaswalla

    gaswalla P4201/85/airsusp/pano/19i

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    So, the goal is to launch this in about four years. That is a long time, and I would expect Tesla to have vastly improved battery chemistry and charging infrastructure at that point.
     
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  15. mspohr

    mspohr Active Member

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    It's funny to see VW group, Mercedes, BMW, etc. belatedly getting on the bandwagon. They seem to come out with daily press releases with vaporware products that might be available in 5 years or so and which will be about the same as what Tesla is actually producing today. I am hopeful that they do get it together to make viable electric cars but they are so far behind that I am pessimistic about their success.
    What will Tesla be producing five years from now? I don't think Tesla will stand still to let them catch up.
     
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  16. ggnykk

    ggnykk Active Member

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    Just saw this on Teslarati
    Porsche to build its own fast-charging network: 150 kW and Tesla capable?

    New details surrounding Porsche’s Mission E electric supercar was revealed this week at the Paris Motor Show. The German-based manufacturer of high performance cars confirmed that it will be going into production with its 600hp all-electric, all-wheel drive electric sports car by the end of the decade. Taking a cue from Tesla, the Volkswagen-owned automaker will also be building out its own fast-charging network which the company says will be able to deliver 248 miles of range (400 km) in as little as 15 minutes, or 80% of the vehicle’s expected 310 miles of range per single charge. Being able to charge this quickly would require at least 150 kW of power, topping Tesla’s fast-charging Supercharger which outputs 135 kW of power.

    Porsche CEO Oliver Blume tells TopGear that the company is working with other organizations to create a fast charging network which will also be made available to Tesla owners through the use of an adapter. “We are in contact with other manufacturers and suppliers around the world to build a fast-charging network. Everybody has the same need. It sounds easy but getting the details agreed is hard. We already have the clear technical concept. It can even work with Teslas, with an adapter.”, says Blume.

    Aside from the announcement of a Porsche-led fast-charging network, Blume also revealed that the company has no immediate plans to produce a self-driving Mission E. The sentiment is inline with Ferrari CEO’s stance on never producing a self-driving car calling Tesla Autopilot an ‘obscene concept’. Porsche is, however, open to the idea using autonomous features to enhance a vehicle. Blume tells publication AutoExpress that a driver may choose to read a newspaper during a traffic jam or have the vehicle self park using autonomous features, but the experience of driving will be left to that of the driver.

    There’s no word on who Porsche is working with on building out its electric vehicle charging network, though TopGear reports Mercedes-Benz chief said, “We are in talks with them [Porsche],” when asked about any collaboration between the two companies.
     
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  17. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    I'm optimistic for two reasons.

    1. The German process is slow to change direction, but once turned it's relentless. They are working it through and they will come up with a good product. If they're talking about it daily, then it is happening.

    2. The Europeans, with much higher population density, are determined to reduce GHG production. They've been on this road for quite a few years and that won't change. As far as I can tell, they don't have any parties, right, left or center, that are claiming that GHG is a fantasy.
     
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  18. ringi

    ringi Member

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    CSS can go up to well over 150KW when the charges are done right and the car software supports it.
     
  19. J1mbo

    J1mbo Member

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    Of course, Tesla would have to design a CCS adapter first.

    Even the Leaf could use this imaginary network, with an adapter.

    However, they had to find a way of getting the word "Tesla" into the piece to get clicks...
     
  20. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    The quote from CEO Blume does not state that Porsche (the VW group) is going to singlehandedly build a new charging network. He says that Porsche is "in contact" with other companies about building it.

    This announcement is less impressive that it appears to be. But it is better than nothing. Now if they would just get on with it instead of saying they are "in contact" with others to discuss the project, maybe it will happen. In the meantime Tesla is rapidly (in comparison to any other car company) expanding its existing network of over 4,450 fast DC chargers! By the time VW actually starts to build something Tesla will likely have over 10,000 Supercharger stalls. And of course Tesla desperately needs them because Tesla is building far more long range EVs than anyone. All the other car companies are playing catch up, even GM.
     
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