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Powerwall versus Givenergy batteries
- Thread starter spon88
- Start date
How have the folks waiting for First4Solar faired, it would seem like @94jdh has completed, how was the installation? Has @spon88 had your installation yet ?
They finally came back to me suggesting they will give me a quote this time, are they an acceptable cheaper service? Other installers round here are charging well over the odds.
They finally came back to me suggesting they will give me a quote this time, are they an acceptable cheaper service? Other installers round here are charging well over the odds.
I am also considering getting on the solar + battery bandwagon.
Prices seem to have risen considerably since this thread started but that's probably just life.
What does the hive mind think of circa 12.5GBP for 4KW of solar and about 10kWh of storage in the South East?
Any recommendations on installers would be appreciated.
Prices seem to have risen considerably since this thread started but that's probably just life.
What does the hive mind think of circa 12.5GBP for 4KW of solar and about 10kWh of storage in the South East?
Any recommendations on installers would be appreciated.
petit_bateau
Active Member
Hi,
Yes completed to a degree - I currently have two Gen1 inverters installed until availability of the gen2 with a 2k retainer.
Install was a lot longer than they thought - which from my understanding was blamed on the survey. Everything is working well ( as it should do) and having the two batteries is definitely the right direction ( may go with more I the future) - saving this month alone being over £160.00 - spon88 hasn't yet got there, and their are some issues with State of Charge with the batteries over on official Givenergy forums.
However, we don't yet know the extent of this and what percentage of installs are affected - apparently this will be fixed with a firmware update, but many aren't convinced as it's been worked on for nearly a year.
The installation team were great, the communications were shocking and hard work to get the installation over the line, which obviously isn't ideal especially with no-shows and wasted holidays.
This finally was resolved with some compensation which I've been happy with - I just hope that the last part of gen2 swapping is planned better.
This is exactly what I've just paid for 4kw with 13.5kwh of storage. Seems about right at current prices
I’m about the same for 6.4 kW solar and 9.5 kWh storage. Slightly less if it was all on one roof, but I need an east/west setup so additional scaffolding costs take it a little over £12.5k.
My install is due for 12th December after four cancellations, so not great. The price is great and it seems that the installation teams are good, but the organisation and comms have been poor.
That said, a lot of it is due to Givenergy failing to supply to agreed leadtimes. A frustrating journey for sure but I'm hanging in there.
What is perhaps more concerning is that Givenergy have some significant issues with management of state-of-charge of the batteries which is becoming more prevalent. The "fix" has been in the pipeline for months but so far it hasn't worked.
If I was starting again, I'd probably look elsewhere to be fair, but given the excellent price and "imminent" install I'm going to hang on and run with it. Cancelling now would mean a huge price hike and back of the queue.
We now know the Octopus Tesla Powerwall tarrif is no more, we also know that Octopus seems to do research jointly with GivEnergy. Teslas have always be strong on the battery management software avoiding the need for customers to do their own integration will electricity sellers.
I not convinced Tesla will be better on integration will UK electricity sellers then GovEnergy going forward. But I do like the well controlled thermal management in the Powerwall.
I not convinced Tesla will be better on integration will UK electricity sellers then GovEnergy going forward. But I do like the well controlled thermal management in the Powerwall.
I forgot to update this thread following my install with First4Solar and the GivEnergy system. It finally went ahead as "planned" (following a bunch of delays) and to be fair the install and equipment has been very good. There are some snags e.g. labelling and an MCB which is incorrect (slighly wrong type but still safe) but generally very pleased. They are also due back very soon to replace the gen 1 inverter we were given to get going, with the upgraded gen 2 which has better charge/discharge capacity. Oh and add the Eddi solar diverter they couldn't get hold of last year, although that isn't critical.
So it was a frustrating journey and the comms were poor but in the end we have a very solid job and at an excellent price. They do know what they are doing but got swamped by too many orders and also the GivEnergy supply problems. I know they are still busy so if anyone does decide to work with them, make sure they quote a realistic lead-time - or maybe go with a local supplier where you may have more control. I do have some concerns if we get a warranty issues and the speed of response.
As for GivEnergy, there are similar poor comms issues but at the heart of the company there are some very good guys it would appear. There was a big issue with the batteries showing the wrong state-of-charge and this was a major concern for some time. However, a big beta test programme and new firmware suggests this issue may soon be resolved.
If I had the choice of Powerwall or GivEnergy again I'd make the same decision and go with GivEnergy. There are pros and cons, but the more open architecture and integrations, newer battery technology and much better app and cloud portal wins for me. We don't really need the higher discharge capability of the Powerwall and the thermal management is also uneccessary as our kit is in a converted, warm garage area. Others may have different requirements of course.
GivEnergy also have a new product, available "soon" which appears to beat PowerWall in most ways and if they can bring that to market quickly, then I reckon Tesla may struggle unless they bring something better quickly.
So it was a frustrating journey and the comms were poor but in the end we have a very solid job and at an excellent price. They do know what they are doing but got swamped by too many orders and also the GivEnergy supply problems. I know they are still busy so if anyone does decide to work with them, make sure they quote a realistic lead-time - or maybe go with a local supplier where you may have more control. I do have some concerns if we get a warranty issues and the speed of response.
As for GivEnergy, there are similar poor comms issues but at the heart of the company there are some very good guys it would appear. There was a big issue with the batteries showing the wrong state-of-charge and this was a major concern for some time. However, a big beta test programme and new firmware suggests this issue may soon be resolved.
If I had the choice of Powerwall or GivEnergy again I'd make the same decision and go with GivEnergy. There are pros and cons, but the more open architecture and integrations, newer battery technology and much better app and cloud portal wins for me. We don't really need the higher discharge capability of the Powerwall and the thermal management is also uneccessary as our kit is in a converted, warm garage area. Others may have different requirements of course.
GivEnergy also have a new product, available "soon" which appears to beat PowerWall in most ways and if they can bring that to market quickly, then I reckon Tesla may struggle unless they bring something better quickly.
Chimpy McChimp
Member
I am just about to place order for a solar array and givenergy batteries. One powerwall approved installer basically told me there was no advantage to go PW now the tarrif has stopped. Plus he said I'd be looking at twice the price of the givenergy. TBH I didn't look much further into it than that. (And he didn't even quote me for the PW even though he said he would). He also said Tesla were getting, or maybe already had, certification to be an energy supplier in UK.
I was so done with all the information that was being thrown at me and the research I had done up till that point I just heard "twice the price" and stopped listening!!
I spoke with my selected installer and they said they need 15-20 week lead times to supply and install the system with GE battery. Hoping that can be shorter to take advantage of the lighter summer days.
I was so done with all the information that was being thrown at me and the research I had done up till that point I just heard "twice the price" and stopped listening!!
I spoke with my selected installer and they said they need 15-20 week lead times to supply and install the system with GE battery. Hoping that can be shorter to take advantage of the lighter summer days.
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petit_bateau
Active Member
At the GF's we have just finished installing 3 x 10kWh SolarEdge. There is availability on those, at least there is at CCL. Cost was GBP £17,250 + 0% VAT because we did a few extra bits of solar in the install as well. So just under £6k for each 10kWh lump.
Everything went fine in the install and it has all played nicely with the existing SolarEdge kit. The online monitoring (both the phone app and the web interface) has also neatly flipped over to include the battery system.
Only snags observed so far are:
1. a. The system is currently operating in Minimise Consumption mode, but there is zero user interface accessibility to set any governing parameters. I'm not saying that I'd necessarily make a better go of it than whatever are the system defaults in the MC mode, but I'd like to at least see the settings. I'm now trying to back out the settings by observing the behaviour of the black box. This is true both in phone app and web interface.
1.b. It seems to be operating fine in a fairly basic manner (scavenge anyyhting that would otherwise go to export, then use battery first rather than import. Since we are in solar deficit at the moment it spends a lot of time at a nominal 0% SoC given that there is naff all sun, and lots of rain. Whether 0% SoC is really 0% or really at a buffer of 20% SoC or something else I don't know as there is no parameter-level access.
2. Neither the phone app nor the web interface give us access to a control panel where we can switch mode to Time Of Use. We know that such a user interface must exist because our installer has some screen grabs of it that was sent by the SE rep, but in terms of getting it ourselves, no. Probably is in beta somewhere .......
3. The installer can't get sense out of SE regarding this. They are very happy that we try chivvying SE as well.
4. We can't get through to SE ourselves. Their various consumer support channels send us round in loops - including their WhatsApp chatbot - that ultimately end at a "case registration" web page that promptly crashes. Every time. Hey ho.
5. No point switching to a Time Of Use tariff until we can get that functionality working. So for now the GF is at whatever the standard import rate is (35p/kWh currently I believe) but at least she is no longer exporting at 2p/kWh. (EDIT : but it would be nice to switch to Time Of Use so as to get that 7p midnight rate).
I've been told that the GiveEnergy software is also somewhat ragged around the edges right now and their beta is due an upgrade ........ The Huawei software works.
Everything went fine in the install and it has all played nicely with the existing SolarEdge kit. The online monitoring (both the phone app and the web interface) has also neatly flipped over to include the battery system.
Only snags observed so far are:
1. a. The system is currently operating in Minimise Consumption mode, but there is zero user interface accessibility to set any governing parameters. I'm not saying that I'd necessarily make a better go of it than whatever are the system defaults in the MC mode, but I'd like to at least see the settings. I'm now trying to back out the settings by observing the behaviour of the black box. This is true both in phone app and web interface.
1.b. It seems to be operating fine in a fairly basic manner (scavenge anyyhting that would otherwise go to export, then use battery first rather than import. Since we are in solar deficit at the moment it spends a lot of time at a nominal 0% SoC given that there is naff all sun, and lots of rain. Whether 0% SoC is really 0% or really at a buffer of 20% SoC or something else I don't know as there is no parameter-level access.
2. Neither the phone app nor the web interface give us access to a control panel where we can switch mode to Time Of Use. We know that such a user interface must exist because our installer has some screen grabs of it that was sent by the SE rep, but in terms of getting it ourselves, no. Probably is in beta somewhere .......
3. The installer can't get sense out of SE regarding this. They are very happy that we try chivvying SE as well.
4. We can't get through to SE ourselves. Their various consumer support channels send us round in loops - including their WhatsApp chatbot - that ultimately end at a "case registration" web page that promptly crashes. Every time. Hey ho.
5. No point switching to a Time Of Use tariff until we can get that functionality working. So for now the GF is at whatever the standard import rate is (35p/kWh currently I believe) but at least she is no longer exporting at 2p/kWh. (EDIT : but it would be nice to switch to Time Of Use so as to get that 7p midnight rate).
I've been told that the GiveEnergy software is also somewhat ragged around the edges right now and their beta is due an upgrade ........ The Huawei software works.
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phil4
Member
There's only 2 things I want out of a battery solar system:
1) Charge the battery with Excess solar, and or use it in preference to importing.
2) Be able to charge from the grid for the winter months, so as to save peak rate use.
I'd have thought those two would be pretty much the baseline of what any battery system delivers. Even my dad's rather non-smart system can do that via it's LCD panel and lots of up down, enter clicks.
I don't have a battery system, only solar panels.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
I have a much longer list - basically what to prioritise when PV is generating more than the house can use (and on any day when PV will comfortably fill the Battery during the day such that there is "excess" that needs diverting) and also what I am going to be doing "soon". Am I going on a trip and want the car filling up? Are we baking/washing ... etc. Stuff that Tesla cannot predict (unless it asks me ... which isn't a current feature ...)
Once PV roof-area significantly exceeds simple household usage then avoiding export becomes a challenge ... and there are a number of devices that can be prioritised, but something has to do the prioritising and switching e.g.
Charge the car(s)
Run an extra-load device - Immersion, portable snorkel-out-of-window Air Con device, hot tub, pool heater, borehole pump, etc.
Ideally have some inter-seasonal store too ...
phil4
Member
Since I don't have batteries I tend not to get carried away thinking about what I might do with them, what possibilities they have. I just look at what happens to my electrons now and see what could make it better.
petit_bateau
Active Member
Im sure everyone here know this - the reason at least two distinct basic operations modes are required is to cater for two normal typical situations.
One stuation that would respond very well to a MINIMISE IMPORT mode is this, where there is excess of solar. This happens to be my house and is smaller than the other house, and currently has gas heating & hot water. I've yet to fit a battery but you can see that it would benefit from one even in the miserable March weather. (A battery and an ASHP are in the planning, but we prefer to do one thing at a time). Both houses are fully occupied in these two examples.
Conversely a situation that would respond very well to a TIME OF USE mode is this, where there is a deficit of solar. This is a larger house and is operating an ASHP. In an ideal world the SolarEdge app would allow for battery charge at 7p/kWh overnight, rather than importing at 35p/kWh during the day. You can see how seldom there is a surplus, so time-shifting self-generation adds little value at this time of year. But time-shifting import to utilise cheap tariffs would add considerable value.
I've put up the data for both properties for the same day. There is roughly 8kW of solar on the larger property, and roughly 4kW on the smaller property. However the larger property has a 15kW ASHP hence the big electrical draw in the current weather.
It really is important for SolarEdge to release their Time Of Use mode to the UK market. Apparently it is available in some other markets so I'm not sure what is going on, and it certainly exists in beta in the UK.
More sophisticated modes can follow later (agent-based device-profiling, weather & occupancy knowledge, etc).
And here is a screen shot of that Time Of Use mode that ought to be available on the SolarEdge phone app (but isn't) for UK users. Also the Backup Only option is not relevant to UK users as they have not released and/or certified the grid disconnection (transfer) switch for UK use.
from : https://www.solaredge. [com] /en/products/software-tools/mysolaredge
mySolarEdge
Meet mySolarEdge - a monitoring app for residential and commercial pv system owners that lets you quickly and easily resolve system issues.
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Pete UK
Member
Yeah, they need to get that sorted. One reason why I’m leaning more towards GivEnergy.Im sure everyone here know this - the reason at least two distinct basic operations modes are required is to cater for two normal typical situations.
One stuation that would respond very well to a MINIMISE IMPORT mode is this, where there is excess of solar. This happens to be my house and is smaller than the other house, and currently has gas heating & hot water. I've yet to fit a battery but you can see that it would benefit from one even in the miserable March weather. (A battery and an ASHP are in the planning, but we prefer to do one thing at a time). Both houses are fully occupied in these two examples.
View attachment 915704
Conversely a situation that would respond very well to a TIME OF USE mode is this, where there is a deficit of solar. This is a larger house and is operating an ASHP. In an ideal world the SolarEdge app would allow for battery charge at 7p/kWh overnight, rather than importing at 35p/kWh during the day. You can see how seldom there is a surplus, so time-shifting self-generation adds little value at this time of year. But time-shifting import to utilise cheap tariffs would add considerable value.
View attachment 915705
I've put up the data for both properties for the same day. There is roughly 8kW of solar on the larger property, and roughly 4kW on the smaller property. However the larger property has a 15kW ASHP hence the big electrical draw in the current weather.
It really is important for SolarEdge to release their Time Of Use mode to the UK market. Apparently it is available in some other markets so I'm not sure what is going on, and it certainly exists in beta in the UK.
More sophisticated modes can follow later (agent-based device-profiling, weather & occupancy knowledge, etc).
And here is a screen shot of that Time Of Use mode that ought to be available on the SolarEdge phone app (but isn't) for UK users. Also the Backup Only option is not relevant to UK users as they have not released and/or certified the grid disconnection (transfer) switch for UK use.
View attachment 915712
from : https://www.solaredge. [com] /en/products/software-tools/mysolaredge
mySolarEdge
Meet mySolarEdge - a monitoring app for residential and commercial pv system owners that lets you quickly and easily resolve system issues.www.solaredge.com
Solar edge looks great except without that ability to program the battery yet it’s not optimal yet. That and I had a fully fitted quote of £35,000 for a solar edge system with 24 panels, inverter, smart water and a 10k SE battery. Bit of an eye watering moment
There is a video by “the guy up in Aberdeenshire” (can’t remember his name) who just had one fitted. He mentioned it’s got the ability to be programmed fully, you can set some really complex profiles for different seasons, months, weeks etc. looked amazing. Sadly non of that is available to the end user yet. Only the installer or manufacturer can do it at the moment he said. Do a quick search for the vid on you tube.
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