Pregnant woman hit by MX (out of main)

[kyzhk]

I guess I deserved that answer - yes I gathered that but why? I assume they think the over-explanation and generally machine-like reply helps them? It's an incredibly insensitive response, it sounds like it was written by the type of pedantic tech-bro you'd get on a forum like this one - all fact and no feeling. But legally, it probably doesn't help them.

The world would be a much better place if journalist can stick to highlighted.

And no - I think the letter was written just fine. Tesla's lawyer was presenting diagnostic logs from the car and making the case that the Tesla functioned exactly as designed and intended.

It was noted at the end that the sequence of events implied by the diagnostic logs would completely invalidate the plaintiff's version of the story.

we have not found any other instance of this sequence of events occurring—an unsupervised child manages to successfully shift the vehicle into gear and then apply the accelerator pedal—and we do not believe it is reasonably foreseeable. We trust you will consider the above before taking any further action in this matter.

Translation of the last sentence: We have data backing us up, don't try anything stupid to screw with us.

 

[Wooloomooloo]

The world would be a much better place if journalist can stick to highlighted.

We can debate that another time, but you might want to read Martha Gelhorn's reporting from Israel in the 1960's or from the hospital boats after the Normandy landings, and tell me journalism should be reduced to "just the facts ma'am".

And no - I think the letter was written just fine. Tesla's lawyer was presenting diagnostic logs from the car and making the case that the Tesla functioned exactly as designed and intended.

It was noted at the end that the sequence of events implied by the diagnostic logs would completely invalidate the plaintiff's version of the story.

Translation of the last sentence: We have data backing us up, don't try anything stupid to screw with us.

I got completely the wrong end of the stick with that letter, and thought it was from Tesla to the plaintiff, not from Tesla's lawyer to the plaintiff's lawyer. My bad, small screen!

 

[anthonyj]

Wow... A friend just emailed me this brutal lawsuit: https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/3...ornia-county-of-alameda/harcourt-v-tesla-inc/

Model X spontaneously accelerated into a pregnant woman in her garage and pinned her against the wall.

No one was in the drivers seat. Neighbors ran over and couldn't get the car to stop or reverse.

She had to prematurely deliver her child through a broken pelvic bone.



I've seen the FUD on spontaneous accelerations but always assumed it was a stupid or absent driver.

First time I've ever heard of a case with no one in the driver's seat.

Hate when my S does that

 

[mongo]

You said it right there. Picture a two year old, keeping weight on the seat to trigger the sensor, and pushing the pedal down far enough, and pulling the gear selector down. Anything is possible and I'm not throwing down judgement, but it seems unlikely. Now, if was some truly random acceleration then all bets are off.

Makes more sense with the details from the Tesla counsel letter. The seat sensor only comes into play if the pedals are not being pressed. If there is a pedal timeout then you need to have two of {seat sensor, door closed, seat belt} or else the car with go into park.

 

[sixela]

To be honest I do not rely on the "automatic" mechanisms to put the car in park. Never ever. I press the button and manually inspect the status to confirm the car is in "P".

Forgetting to apply the hand brake and leaving a Ford Focus (without automatic transmission) in neutral a couple of times is a good teaching experience ;-).

The seat sensor only comes into play if the pedals are not being pressed

Makes sense, frankly. I wouldn't want my car to go in "P" just because I rearrange my behind (or because there is a sensor misbehaving -- 737MAX anyone?)

 

[InDaClub]

True colors...Pregnant woman hit by MX (out of main)

 

[oneday]

True colors...Pregnant woman hit by MX (out of main)

View attachment 412982

Or fat fingers.

 

[Wooloomooloo]

True colors...Pregnant woman hit by MX (out of main)

View attachment 412982

It's clearly a misunderstanding of the post as you'll see by my responses in the thread talking about this.

I've undone that rating, I obviously do not condone the sentiment of his post.

As an aside, what exactly is your problem? You've been trolling me for weeks.

 

[Wooloomooloo]

Or fat fingers.

Thank you

 

[Freder Reeve]

True colors...Pregnant woman hit by MX (out of main)

View attachment 412982

there are a bunch of fake longs in here. Glad someone is noticing.

 

[NinjaVece]

If I understand the case, Model X didn’t “spontaneously” accelerate, the two years old child was on the drives seat?

Child probably put the car on “D” and it creeped forward.

Likely spot on. Just like a gas car that was idling with an automatic transmission and the kid pulled down the shift lever into drive. It would then creep forward as automatic transmissions do. The Tesla, once unlocked, is always 'on' in that driver can be engaged simply by pulling on the lever. If the option for 'creep forward' is set (as opposed to requiring the accelerator pressed to move forward), the car will simply slowly move forward once drive is engaged or until the brake is pressed.

This has ZERO to do with 'spontaneous acceleration' but with the grasp of a two year old in a vehicle that has 'creep forward' enabled when it is in drive.

 

[mongo]

Likely spot on. Just like a gas car that was idling with an automatic transmission and the kid pulled down the shift lever into drive. It would then creep forward as automatic transmissions do. The Tesla, once unlocked, is always 'on' in that driver can be engaged simply by pulling on the lever. If the option for 'creep forward' is set (as opposed to requiring the accelerator pressed to move forward), the car will simply slowly move forward once drive is engaged or until the brake is pressed.

This has ZERO to do with 'spontaneous acceleration' but with the grasp of a two year old in a vehicle that has 'creep forward' enabled when it is in drive.

See post 29 Pregnant woman hit by MX (out of main) full run down on events, accelerator was pressed.

 

[NinjaVece]

What is a lot? The only difficult thing would be keeping the seat sensor happy while pulling the gear stalk down and pressing the pedal. However, if there were an object on the seat (part of the unloading process), then it is even easier.

The car will engage the parking brake if the seat belt is not fastened and the driver's seat weight sensor is not happy. Many find this out when they shift weight to look over their shoulder while reverse with their belt unfastened. So being in drive the entire time would be difficult.

Two year old standing on the seat could easily satisfy the weight sensor. I've NEVER seen it shift back into park when I turn to look behind me. And the child engaging drive when 'creep forward' is optioned in the settings will cause the car to slowly move forward without any push of the accelerator. This is a simple explanation.

 

[MP3Mike]

This is an example of why PIN-to-drive is a good idea for people with kids. (Since the key doesn't have to be physically in the vehicle for them to "start" and drive it.

 

[mongo]

Two year old standing on the seat could easily satisfy the weight sensor. I've NEVER seen it shift back into park when I turn to look behind me. And the child engaging drive when 'creep forward' is optioned in the settings will cause the car to slowly move forward without any push of the accelerator. This is a simple explanation.

The brake needs to be pressed to shift into drive.
The park on look issue is if you are unbelted (or belted and door open), and apparently only happens if you are not pressing either pedal (creep or roll)

 

[Icer]

Kid proofing life is an issue
Neighbors youngest, a holy terror was
playing in his brothers perfect hot rod Chevelle

Making engine noises, etc.

He managed to get the stick shift car rolling down the hill
Leaped out the window hollering about halfway down,
hitting the street with a noticeable splat

Car ended up stopping harmlessly in a field of milkweed

Funniest part was, for what seemed like weeks,
his brother in cleaning the car (which he seemed to do full time)..
...every time he found another trace of milkweed
he would chase the younger brother
around threatening to kill him.

Little brother was never too quick witted,
but he had fortunately learned
to be quick on his feet.

Then he would hide till Dad came home
This went on for weeks
They probably still fight about it today.

 

[EVNow]

I don't think the initial story really adds up. Why would you go to the front of the car to stop the kid from messing with the car - wouldn't you go to the side ? I still find it difficult to believe a 2 yr old can press the brake and shift - mainly because of the reach. But if its a tall kid, may be.

All in all - having that kid in the driver's seat makes it a lot more likely that the kid got the car to the drive position than the car misbehaving.

 

[mongo]

I don't think the initial story really adds up. Why would you go to the front of the car to stop the kid from messing with the car - wouldn't you go to the side ? I still find it difficult to believe a 2 yr old can press the brake and shift - mainly because of the reach. But if its a tall kid, may be.

All in all - having that kid in the driver's seat makes it a lot more likely that the kid got the car to the drive position than the car misbehaving.

I'm not too up on 2 year old heights, but it seems they are tall enough to stand on the floor, push the brake with one foot and pull the shifter (leaning against the seat perhaps?). Per the Tesla letter (post 29), there is no requirement for the seat switch to be activated.

 

[anthonyj]

Maybe the kid was short (ba dum tsh)

 

[cadetsea]

Kid proofing life is an issue
Neighbors youngest, a holy terror was
playing in his brothers perfect hot rod Chevelle

Making engine noises, etc.

He managed to get the stick shift car rolling down the hill
Leaped out the window hollering about halfway down,
hitting the street with a noticeable splat

Car ended up stopping harmlessly in a field of milkweed

Funniest part was, for what seemed like weeks,
his brother in cleaning the car (which he seemed to do full time)..
...every time he found another trace of milkweed
he would chase the younger brother
around threatening to kill him.

Little brother was never too quick witted,
but he had fortunately learned
to be quick on his feet.

Then he would hide till Dad came home
This went on for weeks
They probably still fight about it today.

This could probably get published in some poetry anthology.