Model X with child in drivers seat allegedly injures woman

[Neon001]

Sorry if that was a clickbait title, but this just gets to me:

New lawsuit against Tesla alleges that a Model X pinned a pregnant woman against a wall, breaking her bones and sending her into premature labor (TSLA)

My news aggregator showed me that story last night since it knows I enjoy reading Tesla news, and it just makes me sick. I mean we clearly have a case of a woman that had no control over her two year old child and the child drove the car into her. I know this may sound harsh, and I sympathize with the difficulty of being a parent (I have three young kids myself), but it's fools like this that want to make the entire world idiot proof that prevent decent individuals from having nice things. This is not the view of a Tesla apologist; rather, it's a plea for people in these types of situations to own responsibility for their (and their children's) actions. This could be any car company and it would be just as wrong.

/rant

 

[ry-ballz]

I'm 99% positive this is my boss's daughter.

 

[Nocturnal]

Yeah, scary/sad (nobody died) but it really does seem like a user mistake.

It does make me wonder if they should add some extra bit to allow the car to move into gear. All ICE cars have buttons on the shifter that requires them to be pressed when they go into gear, why not ours?

 

[phigment]

Yeah, scary/sad (nobody died) but it really does seem like a user mistake.

It does make me wonder if they should add some extra bit to allow the car to move into gear. All ICE cars have buttons on the shifter that requires them to be pressed when they go into gear, why not ours?

Holding the brake pedal while engaging drive/reverse isn't enough?

 

[MountainJedi]

Yeah, scary/sad (nobody died) but it really does seem like a user mistake.

It does make me wonder if they should add some extra bit to allow the car to move into gear. All ICE cars have buttons on the shifter that requires them to be pressed when they go into gear, why not ours?

Not all ICE cars have it. I regularly drive a Mercedes E350 that shifts exactly the same way as a Tesla with the brake press and pull down on stem on right side of steering wheel.

 

[Nocturnal]

Holding the brake pedal while engaging drive/reverse isn't enough?

Maybe it is, IDK. Just making an observation (corrected above) that most have this as well. The fact that there isn't a key to turn or button to push makes me lean that way though. Definitely has me reconsidering leaving my 6 year old in the car while in the garage. (not for long periods, but while trying to get the other kid's coat on or something)

 

[Neon001]

Maybe it is, IDK. Just making an observation (corrected above) that most have this as well. The fact that there isn't a key to turn or button to push makes me lean that way though. Definitely has me reconsidering leaving my 6 year old in the car while in the garage. (not for long periods, but while trying to get the other kid's coat on or something)

I think it's a fair point, but the irony here is that the woman should probably be thanking Tesla for not being killed. Reading through the article, it sounds as though the car detected an odd sequence of accelerator and brake presses and deactivated the drive function. Normal cars probably wouldn't even do that.

"[T]he brake pedal was briefly pressed, prompting the vehicle to issue a user message advising that both pedals were being pressed; at this time, pressing the brake overrode the accelerator pedal such that the motor torque being commanded by the accelerator pedal input was appropriately suppressed."

I won't refute that the Tesla does seem easier to start and engage drive function in than most cars, but surely there are other steps parents can take if they are concerned - lock the car when not using it, keep the child away from the car while not locked, keep the key away from the car when not in use, etc.

 

[ry-ballz]

We've been asking for electric chargers at my work for a while now. We have 110 outlets, but we've offered to pay for the installation of a couple level 2 chargers and have gotten pushback. We have only about 100 employees and 11 or 12 electrics.

One of the managers said it's because the chief hates Tesla because his daughters car ran her over.

 

[dsvick]

It does make me wonder if they should add some extra bit to allow the car to move into gear. All ICE cars have buttons on the shifter that requires them to be pressed when they go into gear, why not ours?

Not all ICE cars have it. I regularly drive a Mercedes E350 that shifts exactly the same way as a Tesla with the brake press and pull down on stem on right side of steering wheel.

My old Corolla and my wifes Jeepare the same, there is no button to push, just the brake pedal.

The fact that there isn't a key to turn or button to push makes me lean that way though. Definitely has me reconsidering leaving my 6 year old in the car while in the garage. (not for long periods, but while trying to get the other kid's coat on or something)

PIN to drive would have prevented this.

 

[Daniel in SD]

How does a 2 year old press the brake and shift into drive? Is that even physically possible?
This seems like a flaw in all keyless designs. If you are near the car and someone gets into the driver’s seat then they can drive the car.

 

[rhaekar]

Maybe it is, IDK. Just making an observation (corrected above) that most have this as well. The fact that there isn't a key to turn or button to push makes me lean that way though. Definitely has me reconsidering leaving my 6 year old in the car while in the garage. (not for long periods, but while trying to get the other kid's coat on or something)

You could always just enable pin to drive.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

PIN to drive would have prevented this.

All owners with small (or even large!) children should probably have it turned on. It's too bad PIN to drive is so laggy and terrible and I am always just sitting there looking dumbly at the screen waiting for it to accept key presses. But I use it anyway...I would just like to be able to start driving forward within 5 seconds of sitting in the vehicle.


Reading the document, it does seem like a contributing factor in this case that the Model X apparently closes the driver's door automatically on brake pedal application.

In the Model 3, you have to be sitting in your seat (with enough pressure) if the door is open, in order to get the car to move, and I think the seat belt may also figure in in some situations (I can't remember). At least with the way it is configured for me (with creep on), I've had several instances where I was moving the car short distances and it put itself in park on its own, which is a good thing (inconvenience well worth the added safety). The Model X does kind of "bypass" one of those safety overrides by automatically closing the driver's door (apparently - it's in the lawsuit document), I suppose.

EDIT:
"Model 3 automatically shifts into Park whenever you connect a charge cable or if two or more of the following conditions are met simultaneously:

• The driver's seat belt is unbuckled.
• The occupancy sensor in the driver's seat does not detect an occupant.
• The driver's door is opened.

Note: The above conditions do not reflect a comprehensive list of reasons why Model 3 may automatically shift into Park and, in certain scenarios, it is possible for your vehicle to shift into Park when only one of the above conditions is true."

It seems like at least two of the above conditions would be met with the Model X even with the driver's door closed, with a two-year-old, but the logic may not be the same for a Model X. Not going to read the manual...

 

[groovidad]

Yeah, I'm having a difficult time believing this story. A "2 year old" was able to move the car into her??? Something is missing.

 

[Nocturnal]

I think it's a fair point, but the irony here is that the woman should probably be thanking Tesla for not being killed. Reading through the article, it sounds as though the car detected an odd sequence of accelerator and brake presses and deactivated the drive function. Normal cars probably wouldn't even do that.

"[T]he brake pedal was briefly pressed, prompting the vehicle to issue a user message advising that both pedals were being pressed; at this time, pressing the brake overrode the accelerator pedal such that the motor torque being commanded by the accelerator pedal input was appropriately suppressed."

I won't refute that the Tesla does seem easier to start and engage drive function in than most cars, but surely there are other steps parents can take if they are concerned - lock the car when not using it, keep the child away from the car while not locked, keep the key away from the car when not in use, etc.

Certainly I'm not blaming Tesla at all. Just wondering if we can do even more.

You could always just enable pin to drive.

Good point. I probably should use it as an anti-theft measure anyway.

How does a 2 year old press the brake and shift into drive? Is that even physically possible?
This seems like a flaw in all keyless designs. If you are near the car and someone gets into the driver’s seat then they can drive the car.

Seems very possible. Kid stands up in foot well, pushes on pedal and reaches up to grab the gear shifter.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Seems very possible. Kid stands up in foot well, pushes on pedal and reaches up to grab the gear shifter.

Someone with a 3 year old needs to try to get them to do this. The distance from the brake pedal to the stalk on the Model 3 is 25-26" and it's closer to horizontal than vertical. I guess that's why this is a freak accident.
Also the car should not shift into drive without weight in the front seat. Maybe something was left on it?

This is not the view of a Tesla apologist; rather, it's a plea for people in these types of situations to own responsibility for their (and their children's) actions. This could be any car company and it would be just as wrong.

Most people have the expectation that when they leave the car with their key that the car cannot be turned on. Perhaps this is not true with Tesla's system or maybe the key was left in the car. I think other car companies have much more accurate key localization.

 

[Neon001]

Also, blaming it on a 2 year is ridiculous.

I think you need to read what I wrote again.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I think you need to read what I wrote again.

I did. I'm sorry.

 

[Neon001]

I did. I'm sorry.

Then I have no idea what to say, because I quite clearly said that folks should own responsibility for their children's actions.

 

[WileyTheMan]

Never discount what a two year old can do physically. I could see them pulling that off.

However, the things that keeps popping into my head is the PIN to drive. I think the only thing Tesla could be doing more about is promoting this feature. It prevents theft as well as unwanted driving from teenagers or small children.

That said, by no means do I think Tesla is at fault here. What this lawsuit is, is a thinly veiled attempt at getting Tesla to settle.

 

[ord3r]

If they idiot proof it due to this lawsuit, I hope they add “I am not an idiot” mode for the rest of us.