Premature tire wear from regen braking system

[3silverISgold]

It would be nice to have a survey of how long the different tires types and sizes are last on these TM3s. With the extra weight, and extra instant torque, I would surmise most people are getting less than rated mileage out of their tires. My bet is you are on the low side at 18k, but not outside the bell curve just yet.

That would be a good thread.

I called Michelin regarding their warranty claim on these tires. And sadly, the rep could not locate a local Michelin shop nor did I ever receive a return email or call to schedule a courtesy tire inspection. So in essence, Michelin's warranty is totally bogus.

I would definitely like to see some other examples of other tire types and performance.

 

[Paddy3101]

Hmmm.

The tires don't 'know' why they are exerting a deceleration force on the car. Both the Fiction Brakes and Regen Braking are acting on the same wheels, at the same point.

Doesn't matter to the tire why or how the wheel is being slowed down from a mechanical POV.

However, if you are one of those people who tend to 'over-drive' the throttle (not being derogatory, it's just a driving style thing), on/off/on/off then that may now have un-intentional consequences. Letting the car 'roll' will help with both energy consumption and tire wear.

 

[ewoodrick]

After driving the Model 3 AWD for 13 months and having to replace the original set of tires (18" Michelin MXM4) at 17,000, I have come to a conclusion that the main culprit is the standard regenerative braking system.

Thus, I am going to switch to the low regen mode and see a difference in tire wear. Replacing the brake pads are a lot cheaper endeavor than replacing the tires...

The majority of the mileage came from commuting with short burst of acceleration for traffic maneuvers and normal driving habits.

What do you think?

Then why did I just get 29,000 miles on mine?

 

[Needsdecaf]

If the center of your tires are wearing down before the edges, an easy way to extend tire life is to simply reduce your tire pressure a few pounds.
Will also give you a quieter and smoother ride.

Ding, ding, ding! If the tires truly were worn in the center and evenly "less worn" on the edges, than the culprit is certainly overinflation. Personally I inflate my tires to 38-39 cold. I have just over 27k miles on mine, rotated once at 11k, and just checked this morning. I need a depth gauge, but I am not yet at the wear bars, and not all that close either.

It would be nice to have a survey of how long the different tires types and sizes are last on these TM3s. With the extra weight, and extra instant torque, I would surmise most people are getting less than rated mileage out of their tires. My bet is you are on the low side at 18k, but not outside the bell curve just yet.

Just about to turn 27k and looks like I am about 3/4 of the way through the depth. Going to purchase a tread depth gauge to measure. Wear is even. One front / back rotation. A lot of highway driving.

 

[usofrob]

I have a P3D, and a Model S 90D. The 90D had near perfect tire wear without rotating tires. The P3D wears more on the rear. I think the major difference is that the P3D uses different motors front and rear. The regen (and forward moving) force is stronger on the rear tires due to having different motors front/rear. On the 90D they have the same motor and the same wear. I also practice moderating my regen, because it is less wear on the tires, and because I believe it's ever so slightly more efficient. I tend to drive relatively aggressively when it's safe, but to use a racer's term I keep it at like 7/10ths or below, depending on the tires and conditions. My summer tires can handle driving on them hardware without as much wear. I think the all season and winter tires wear more when used closer to their limit. So, when I have those one, I lower my driving limits.

 

[Lloyd]

Normal rotations for the Tesla family IIRC is front to back only. No X pattern is recommended.

 

[S100D]

After driving the Model 3 AWD for 13 months and having to replace the original set of tires (18" Michelin MXM4) at 17,000, I have come to a conclusion that the main culprit is the standard regenerative braking system.

Thus, I am going to switch to the low regen mode and see a difference in tire wear. Replacing the brake pads are a lot cheaper endeavor than replacing the tires...

The majority of the mileage came from commuting with short burst of acceleration for traffic maneuvers and normal driving habits.

What do you think?

I have a 2016 Model S with 19" Michelin Primacy tires. My car is 3 years old and has 25,500 miles on it. It looks like I still have at least another 15,000 miles left on the tires. I use normal regen all of the time so I do not understand why your tires wore out at 17,000 miles. Hard acceleration can also drastically reduce the number of miles tires will last.

 

[Msjulie]

Stealth Performance, closing in on 27k, good even wear, 5k left give or take how I treat it (it had 1 track event) ...

Alignment and tire pressures are important in keeping wear even and managed..

 

[3silverISgold]

Normal rotations for the Tesla family IIRC is front to back only. No X pattern is recommended.

Good to know.

 

[3silverISgold]

Ding, ding, ding! If the tires truly were worn in the center and evenly "less worn" on the edges, than the culprit is certainly overinflation. Personally I inflate my tires to 38-39 cold. I have just over 27k miles on mine, rotated once at 11k, and just checked this morning. I need a depth gauge, but I am not yet at the wear bars, and not all that close either.



Just about to turn 27k and looks like I am about 3/4 of the way through the depth. Going to purchase a tread depth gauge to measure. Wear is even. One front / back rotation. A lot of highway driving.

Great answer!!! Deflate gate.

 

[Twiglett]

this thread is so funny
I just love the whole regen is harder on tires and braking thing
In other news, tires can tell they are fitted to EVs and wear more because of regen

 

[TomB985]

this thread is so funny
I just love the whole regen is harder on tires and braking thing
In other news, tires can tell they are fitted to EVs and wear more because of regen

There's a big difference when all the regen braking comes from the rear tires, though. Very different than proportional 4-wheel braking.

I think the OP is overinflated, though. I've been at 35 PSI since 3,000 miles, and my tread looks fantastic. Swapped out for winter tires at 14K, and I still had 6-7/32nds across the tread of all four tires.

 

[Holo]

I believe the OP's initial assertion is broadly correct. Standard brakes exert a force to slow the car down by creating friction between the rotor and the brake pads. As a result, the brake pads slowly wear down and need to be replaced periodically. Regenerative braking shifts that force to the resistance between the tire and the road. This shift WILL increase the rate at which the tires wear. This is similar too, but in reverse, of the increased wear that tires mounted on the drive wheels (mostly the front wheels these days) of ICE cars compared to the wear of the non-drive wheels (typically rear wheels). Having said that, obviously driving habits (such as aggressive acceleration and slowing) will increase the rate of wear on the tires.

 

[Twiglett]

I believe the OP's initial assertion is broadly correct. Standard brakes exert a force to slow the car down by creating friction between the rotor and the brake pads. As a result, the brake pads slowly wear down and need to be replaced periodically. Regenerative braking shifts that force to the resistance between the tire and the road. This shift WILL increase the rate at which the tires wear. This is similar too, but in reverse, of the increased wear that tires mounted on the drive wheels (mostly the front wheels these days) of ICE cars compared to the wear of the non-drive wheels (typically rear wheels). Having said that, obviously driving habits (such as aggressive acceleration and slowing) will increase the rate of wear on the tires.

sorry - I was taking a drink when I read this, it made me spray my keyboard with water
I'll bet its the heat from the brake friction that stops the tires from wearing, obviously regen causes no heat so it wears the tires out

 

[3silverISgold]

There's a big difference when all the regen braking comes from the rear tires, though. Very different than proportional 4-wheel braking.

I think the OP is overinflated, though. I've been at 35 PSI since 3,000 miles, and my tread looks fantastic. Swapped out for winter tires at 14K, and I still had 6-7/32nds across the tread of all four tires.

How is the ride and handling at 35 PSI?

 

[Az_Rael]

It would be nice to have a survey of how long the different tires types and sizes are last on these TM3s. With the extra weight, and extra instant torque, I would surmise most people are getting less than rated mileage out of their tires. My bet is you are on the low side at 18k, but not outside the bell curve just yet.

I am getting more range out of my tires on my 3 than I have gotten in a long time. I got 35K on my OEM Continentals and could have gone longer but decided I wanted nicer tires so switched to Michelins. Of course my previous cars were staggered setups, so those ate tires every 20-25K miles or so.

I am also the slowest Tesla driver on the road around here. Most others I see out and about are doing jackrabbit starts off every light. That will eat tires faster than anything.

 

[Holo]

sorry - I was taking a drink when I read this, it made me spray my keyboard with water
I'll bet its the heat from the brake friction that stops the tires from wearing, obviously regen causes no heat so it wears the tires out

What were you drinking? Couldn't have been just water.

 

[KenC]

As already noted, if your tread is wearing in the center, you need to lower your pressures. Two, you need to work on feathering the throttle. Your foot should always be on the throttle modulating it gradually. You shouldn't be mashing and/or completely lifting. It's not a light switch, it's continuous. If that doesn't suit your driving style and you can't adapt, set regen on low, and drive it like a regular car.

 

[S100D]

That would be a good thread.

I called Michelin regarding their warranty claim on these tires. And sadly, the rep could not locate a local Michelin shop nor did I ever receive a return email or call to schedule a courtesy tire inspection. So in essence, Michelin's warranty is totally bogus.

I would definitely like to see some other examples of other tire types and performance.

The Michelin tires that come on Tesla’s do not have a warranty. I believe this is Tesla’s fault not Michelin’s.

i went to Discount Tire when my car was new and I think I spent around $120 to get all four tires warrantied. They will also rotate and balance your tires at no additional charge.

 

[abasile]

As we regularly drive down and up a mountain, we probably do more regen braking than the vast majority of EV owners. I can assure you that steady, non-jerky regen is great for tire life compared with frequent use of the friction brakes. Our Teslas have gotten better tire life than any ICE cars that we previously drove.