-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Pressure Buffeting - Has anyone experienced it?
- Thread starter UMD86
- Start date
-
- Tags
- Driving Dynamics Model S
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
Resurrecting this thread. I am having the same pressure buffeting others report with all windows closed on my rcently acquired 2013 model. I did adjust the hatch stops as one was barely making contact and another was making no contact. It definitely improved a bit but is still there. I'm not sure if I need to keep cranking the adjusters out (I've added a full turn since my initial adjustment already) until the auto hatch simply won't shut or lock and then back off half a turn or what.
Any advice? Anyone encounter an alternate or additional solution?
Any advice? Anyone encounter an alternate or additional solution?
Some pics of the lower corner adjusters (on hatch) and "stops" (on body) on my car.
Would be interested to know if the turn out looks similar for your own vehicles.
As an aside, my hatch is clearly higher on the driver's side than passenger side so any about of adjusting may be futile until the hatch is better aligned.
I did read on one forum where someone said the stops should be screwed all the way down and only the hatch adjusters should be used, but that seems hard to believe (of course I can't actually get the lower stops to turn by hand so that may be moot). I did put crease on the adjuster faces and check the contact point on the opposite surface after closing (making sure I had good contact).
Anyway, my pics (note: you can see where my hatch adjusters hit the lower stops - not exactly centered):
I tried adjusting out more, but now I can tell the liftgate is clearly straining to shut so no point in going any further. To quote my stepson on the car (with regard to the buffeting) "Well, it's not quite airplane at 40k feet level"
Would be interested to know if the turn out looks similar for your own vehicles.
As an aside, my hatch is clearly higher on the driver's side than passenger side so any about of adjusting may be futile until the hatch is better aligned.
I did read on one forum where someone said the stops should be screwed all the way down and only the hatch adjusters should be used, but that seems hard to believe (of course I can't actually get the lower stops to turn by hand so that may be moot). I did put crease on the adjuster faces and check the contact point on the opposite surface after closing (making sure I had good contact).
Anyway, my pics (note: you can see where my hatch adjusters hit the lower stops - not exactly centered):
I tried adjusting out more, but now I can tell the liftgate is clearly straining to shut so no point in going any further. To quote my stepson on the car (with regard to the buffeting) "Well, it's not quite airplane at 40k feet level"
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
Adjust the pads out as far as you need to until the buffeting stops.There are two other adjustment pads further up the side of the hatch. Not at my car right now, but I think they're about halfway down each side of the hatch (unless the design has changed recently).
A method of adjustment you can use is get a piece of paper that is fairly sturdy. Not quite cardboard but something that will be a bit stronger than regular paper. Back off all the adjusters on the car so when you put the piece of paper between the adjusters it slides easily out when the hatch is closed. Then start with the adjusters that are mid way up the car (the ones Todd mentioned). Adjust them slowly until you can't remove the paper with the hatch closed. Once that's done, work on the lower adjusters. That will get the hatch to have pretty even pressure around it. Then drive the car and make small adjustments evenly to all the adjusters if you still have the pressure buffeting. It will take time to get it adjusted but it should work if you are persistent.
If you can't get the hang of pulling a piece of paper out of the middle adjusters, then focus on the bottom adjusters. Get those adjusted and then try to adjust the middle ones just enough so they don't mess up the lower adjusters holding the piece of paper in place.
If you can't get the hang of pulling a piece of paper out of the middle adjusters, then focus on the bottom adjusters. Get those adjusted and then try to adjust the middle ones just enough so they don't mess up the lower adjusters holding the piece of paper in place.
Thanks guys. I have been messing with all four sets of adjusters. Earlier before we went to visit a friend at the hospital ( and before I had read your replies), I started all over. I cranked all 4 down, then unscrewed the two end hatch adjusters until I got a solid full circle imprint on the lower stop on the body. I then put a dab of grease on the midpoint adjusters and raised then until I saw a reasonable contact patch with the stop on the hatch. This seems "better" than where I was before, but I still have buffeting over several sections of road near my house (i.e. I can easily duplicate). My wife and I also thought we detected a hatch rattle (suggesting it could all be tighter still.
Essentially, I kind of reversed your model Blurry. I may be able to just start cranking a quarter turn now on all 4 or start over again and try the mids first as you suggest.
Do you ever adjust the lower stops (on the body)? I THINK they are adjustable, but mine are pretty tight (didn't try to put a big hex wrench on them). As you can see in my pics they appear to be somewhat raised now.
Finally, the hatch is higher on the driver's side and the gap between the passenger side taillight panel on the hatch is wider so the whole thing may have a bit of a twist in it. I'm not sure if where the hatch bolts to the body there are oblong adjuster holes (didn't see any), but I'm more inclined to let the service center look at that since it is CPO. If it weren't, well..I'm sure I would ne tearing into it, looking at the mounting as well as the latch and striker, etc.
Thanks!
Essentially, I kind of reversed your model Blurry. I may be able to just start cranking a quarter turn now on all 4 or start over again and try the mids first as you suggest.
Do you ever adjust the lower stops (on the body)? I THINK they are adjustable, but mine are pretty tight (didn't try to put a big hex wrench on them). As you can see in my pics they appear to be somewhat raised now.
Finally, the hatch is higher on the driver's side and the gap between the passenger side taillight panel on the hatch is wider so the whole thing may have a bit of a twist in it. I'm not sure if where the hatch bolts to the body there are oblong adjuster holes (didn't see any), but I'm more inclined to let the service center look at that since it is CPO. If it weren't, well..I'm sure I would ne tearing into it, looking at the mounting as well as the latch and striker, etc.
Thanks!
Well after messing with it repeatedly, I'm not getting any love on this one. I can only assume that the hatch being somewhat misaligned is preventing the stop adjustment from working as it should. Either that or the latch/striker is somehow out of adjustment. I've e-mailed my local service center to set up an appointment ( I have a few other issues they need to take care of too), so we'll see where this ends up once i get in there to see them. Total bummer as this is such a goofy (but annoying as heck) problem and should be such an easy fix.
Well, I have an appointment on the 18th so I have some time to continue messing with it on my own until then. To that end, tonight I went out, screwed the adjusters all the way in and put a thin later of grease on the trunk weatherstrip seal across the bottom half of the seal (i.e. from one midpoint adjuster on the side of the body all the way around to the other and shut the lid. I was looking to see if the weatherstrip was making even contact all the way around (checking for a corresponding grease imprint on the lid when I opened it.
To my surprise, there are whole sections where the weatherstripping doesn't even appear to be contacting the lid and where it is contacting it is only a very thin (think toothpick width) everywhere except the lower passenger side corner (where it is about 1/8-1/4 inch wide)!
Now, I'm sure the weatherstrip isn't supposed to be crushed, but sheesh this seems crazy. So, if this is indeed not enough "crush" on the gasket, then it would seem my theory about the hatch alignment or striker/latch adjustment might be heading in the right direction.
I hate to ask but, I'd love if one of you could try the same thing. You don't have to slather it all over the lower half of the gasket like I did - maybe a few 2" spots here or there around the midpoint strikers and a couple of lower areas. If you get a solid witness mark that would at least tell me there is something wrong with my car. You could use something less greasy like dish soap. I know this is a lot to ask!
Thanks!
To my surprise, there are whole sections where the weatherstripping doesn't even appear to be contacting the lid and where it is contacting it is only a very thin (think toothpick width) everywhere except the lower passenger side corner (where it is about 1/8-1/4 inch wide)!
Now, I'm sure the weatherstrip isn't supposed to be crushed, but sheesh this seems crazy. So, if this is indeed not enough "crush" on the gasket, then it would seem my theory about the hatch alignment or striker/latch adjustment might be heading in the right direction.
I hate to ask but, I'd love if one of you could try the same thing. You don't have to slather it all over the lower half of the gasket like I did - maybe a few 2" spots here or there around the midpoint strikers and a couple of lower areas. If you get a solid witness mark that would at least tell me there is something wrong with my car. You could use something less greasy like dish soap. I know this is a lot to ask!
Thanks!
Boy, Cab, I thought this was an excellent thought on your part. Because as you sort of pointed out if the weather stripping is not making full contact all around the sealing area, then that could certainly create the sound buffeting that everyone on this thread is experiencing. I'm surprised nobody came back with a response.
BTW, any help with the appointment on the 18th?
I took my car(2016S75D) to the local service center and they changed out my tires and rims with another set they had on hand and THEY said it seemed to eliminate the buffeting. So they put a brand new set of tires on my car (Goodyears) and the buffeting reappeared.
Their solution was that I buy a new set of tires (ie Michelins) at my own expense!! Are your F!@$ing kidding me???? This is a car that has 5700 miles on it, that was not right from the factory and they want me to pay for the fix?? Will never ever buy another tesla. freakin build quality sucks for a car that costs over 90K. Wow.
P100DHG.
Member
Picked up my P100D yesterday on 21" grey turbines and I'm having the problem but the stops are touching nicely. I tested it with a piece of receipt paper from the market. It's bad on a concrete freeway. Okay on asphalt not as bad.
It was an inventory car and I drove it in Santa Monica, no issues. Honestly there is no issue below 35 it's 40 and above
I some what expected to have this issue. It's the only knock on the car but in order to take it on road trips etc, I've gotta figure out a solution.
It was an inventory car and I drove it in Santa Monica, no issues. Honestly there is no issue below 35 it's 40 and above
I some what expected to have this issue. It's the only knock on the car but in order to take it on road trips etc, I've gotta figure out a solution.
Reading this thread made me update my description. We need to see what options the cars have to have insight into these problems. I have the metal roof, assuming better stiffness that may be a factor why I have no buffeting.
On the other hand, I drove a V8 Pinto that the rear window would blow out if you exceeded 100 mph with the windows down. Maybe I am just not noticing what you describe.
On the other hand, I drove a V8 Pinto that the rear window would blow out if you exceeded 100 mph with the windows down. Maybe I am just not noticing what you describe.
P100DHG.
Member
Glass roof, 21" wheels. Those could be factors. It could even be the tires are Michelin pilots sports.
So, I've done a TON of research on this and here's where I landed (to date):
1. Some people hear/ feel it and some don't - This is particularly challenging as some people are simply more sensitive to this than others. Indeed, you will see comments like "This is driving my spouse nuts, but doesn't bother me at all". When I took mine in to the Tesla service center, the first tech couldn't hear/feel it but the second did right away.
2. It's the nature of the car - I've had two other loaners and I can hear/feel this in all of them. One of the Tesla techs basically acknowledged this. I do believe some are worse than others and when you combine that with number 1 above, it's a bit of a tough spot.
3. The root cause is probably a basic design issue - Sorry, it's just the way it is fellas. It typically manifests when you hit a bump and is worse when you hit a string of bumps or drive over a pseudo-washboard surface. In the worst cases you get a full on pressure headache inducing buffet. In better cases, it just results in a boomy cabin for each bump. Typically, sound deadening, etc. doesn't do anything to improve this.
4. You can simulate it - You can simulate this pretty easily in two ways. Your first option is to sit in the driver's seat while someone lightly hits the lower center of the hatch glass (from the outside) with a closed fist in a few rapid successions. You will sort of hear/feel the boom. Your second option is to just sit on the edge of the back seat facing the rear, and hit the middle center headrest with a closed fist...sort of like a boxer hitting a punching bag. (Note: the seat isn't the issue so don't chase that rat hole).
5. Stuff that can help reduce this - As the folks in this thread note, the hatch adjusters do help. They don't reduce the boominess as much as they help to reduce the buffeting pressure. One thing about the adjusters - they are pretty soft/spongy. When you hit a bump, the hatch can rise ever so slightly and then come down and compress those adjusters (congrats, you are in a big speaker). You can augment or even replace the adjusters - particilarly those in the drip rail area - with a firmer piece of rubber. The simplest example - remove the center adjusters (they just unscreww) and cut a piece of 3/4" or so rubber heater hose about 1/2-3/4" long and just set it on the plastic adjuster base in place of the adjusters you unscrewed. When you shut the hatch, it is simply more firm and the bounce back down over bumps compresses less. Unfortunately, you can't do a ton to stop the hatch from rising ever so slightly other than make the latch really tight. You get into diminishing returns though. Don't expect perfection. I will say the one thing that made the most difference was impractical to implement. I taped the entire hatch shut with blue painters tape...around the entire gap. I test drive the car on my normal test sections of road with marked improvement. I even had my wife ride with me and she declared "what did you do? You fixed it?". I did this at night (kind of embarrassing driving around with tape all over your car), and she hadn't noticed the tape when she got in the car. When we got home I walked her to the back of the car (she laughed of course). When I did this months ago, I thought the tape was preventing air from getting past the hatch seal. Now I believe that all that tape simply holds the hatch super secure relative to the factory single latch point. It's not rocket science.
6. It's not unique to the Model S - Finally, It's not just the Model S that suffes with this. The current full size GM SUVs are absolutely plagued with this. There are THOUSANDS of posts on the GM truck forums describing this and GM has tried a ton of stuff to fix it (it is definitely worse than the Model S for sure). Attempted fixes from GM have included re-attaching roof bows, replacing wheels and tires, and (most recently) bolting heavy dampener weights along the exhaust pipe. There is a basic design flaw here and they are trying to just stop the vibration from entering the cabin in the first place. There are various other makes and models out there too with this. Most are hatchbacks interestingly enough.
OK...I'm tired of typing this novel on an iPad now!
1. Some people hear/ feel it and some don't - This is particularly challenging as some people are simply more sensitive to this than others. Indeed, you will see comments like "This is driving my spouse nuts, but doesn't bother me at all". When I took mine in to the Tesla service center, the first tech couldn't hear/feel it but the second did right away.
2. It's the nature of the car - I've had two other loaners and I can hear/feel this in all of them. One of the Tesla techs basically acknowledged this. I do believe some are worse than others and when you combine that with number 1 above, it's a bit of a tough spot.
3. The root cause is probably a basic design issue - Sorry, it's just the way it is fellas. It typically manifests when you hit a bump and is worse when you hit a string of bumps or drive over a pseudo-washboard surface. In the worst cases you get a full on pressure headache inducing buffet. In better cases, it just results in a boomy cabin for each bump. Typically, sound deadening, etc. doesn't do anything to improve this.
4. You can simulate it - You can simulate this pretty easily in two ways. Your first option is to sit in the driver's seat while someone lightly hits the lower center of the hatch glass (from the outside) with a closed fist in a few rapid successions. You will sort of hear/feel the boom. Your second option is to just sit on the edge of the back seat facing the rear, and hit the middle center headrest with a closed fist...sort of like a boxer hitting a punching bag. (Note: the seat isn't the issue so don't chase that rat hole).
5. Stuff that can help reduce this - As the folks in this thread note, the hatch adjusters do help. They don't reduce the boominess as much as they help to reduce the buffeting pressure. One thing about the adjusters - they are pretty soft/spongy. When you hit a bump, the hatch can rise ever so slightly and then come down and compress those adjusters (congrats, you are in a big speaker). You can augment or even replace the adjusters - particilarly those in the drip rail area - with a firmer piece of rubber. The simplest example - remove the center adjusters (they just unscreww) and cut a piece of 3/4" or so rubber heater hose about 1/2-3/4" long and just set it on the plastic adjuster base in place of the adjusters you unscrewed. When you shut the hatch, it is simply more firm and the bounce back down over bumps compresses less. Unfortunately, you can't do a ton to stop the hatch from rising ever so slightly other than make the latch really tight. You get into diminishing returns though. Don't expect perfection. I will say the one thing that made the most difference was impractical to implement. I taped the entire hatch shut with blue painters tape...around the entire gap. I test drive the car on my normal test sections of road with marked improvement. I even had my wife ride with me and she declared "what did you do? You fixed it?". I did this at night (kind of embarrassing driving around with tape all over your car), and she hadn't noticed the tape when she got in the car. When we got home I walked her to the back of the car (she laughed of course). When I did this months ago, I thought the tape was preventing air from getting past the hatch seal. Now I believe that all that tape simply holds the hatch super secure relative to the factory single latch point. It's not rocket science.
6. It's not unique to the Model S - Finally, It's not just the Model S that suffes with this. The current full size GM SUVs are absolutely plagued with this. There are THOUSANDS of posts on the GM truck forums describing this and GM has tried a ton of stuff to fix it (it is definitely worse than the Model S for sure). Attempted fixes from GM have included re-attaching roof bows, replacing wheels and tires, and (most recently) bolting heavy dampener weights along the exhaust pipe. There is a basic design flaw here and they are trying to just stop the vibration from entering the cabin in the first place. There are various other makes and models out there too with this. Most are hatchbacks interestingly enough.
OK...I'm tired of typing this novel on an iPad now!
P100DHG.
Member
P100DHG.
Member
First I preyed. I preyed to every god because I knew that's what it would take.
Second I got a lucky penny and held it tight because without luck it likely wasn't going to work.
Third, I I adjusted the bottom adjustments slightly further out. The bottom ones are easiest to adjust and are easy to visually see the difference in height after adjusting. Now when the trunk opens it make a nice pop. I don't notice any issues with it closing. I'll have to make a video once I'm not sick.
Second I got a lucky penny and held it tight because without luck it likely wasn't going to work.
Third, I I adjusted the bottom adjustments slightly further out. The bottom ones are easiest to adjust and are easy to visually see the difference in height after adjusting. Now when the trunk opens it make a nice pop. I don't notice any issues with it closing. I'll have to make a video once I'm not sick.
I cannot express how happy I am for having found this thread! I bought a 2014 TMS 85 three weeks ago and was wondering about the deep rumble on uneven roads. It really disturbed the driving experience. My girlfriend isn't bothered by it however and as someone here already has pointed out, some people are much more sensitive to low frequency noise than others. I was close to getting crazy due to the irritating noise (headache and hurt ear drums) however I thought I couldn't be the only Tesla owner experiencing this kind of problem. Just had the car at service to check out this issue among others, however they did not figure out the cause of the problem, I kind of got the impression that it was normal. I was told that the newer cars are slightly less noisy and that my tires were more noisy than other tires. Anyways, after reading the first page in this thread I immediately located the rubber screws, screwed them pretty far out and - wow - !! - the car is nearly silent! Ok still a little bit of noise, but that I can live with. The asphalt/tarmac in Oslo is very bad hence the noise was almost constantly present.
Well, thanks again for writing about this issue, I feel like I have a brand new car now!!
)))
Well, thanks again for writing about this issue, I feel like I have a brand new car now!!
)))Similar threads
