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Pressure Buffeting - Has anyone experienced it?
- Thread starter UMD86
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
I sent my model S to the service center three times to fix the pressure buffeting, and each time the car came back better, so always start there. But the pressure buffeting (boomy) was still not as good as my prior car, a Prius. The four knobs are too fussy and won't work in all situations, at least in my case. My solution has worked very well for my car. I have taped a 1/2 inch diameter rope all around the hatch lid, where it should come in contact with the seal, see the attached photo. I had to adjust the position of the rope based on impressions in the lower rubber seal, which took about a week. Everyone in the family agrees the car is much quieter now. Closing the hatch requires two hands and a bit of force.
Where does the rope contact the rubber seal? More specifically, is it right at the outer tip of the seal or is it more in the middle or is it right over the pinch weld where the seal pushes on to the car? I think this is another version of what I tried with the stiffer rubber adjuster replacments (to minimize hatch movement) but your solution is likely applying stiffer pressure all the way around the hatch (sort of like when I tried taping tbe entire hatch gap shut.
In my case, I adjusted the striker a few times (heck, I drove for a month w/o the plastic trim piece in place so I could mess with all kinds of adjustments). The reality is the cabin is boomy over bumps (period) and I'm not sure any amount of adjusting of the 4 adjusters or strikers ever totally eliminates it. Although adjusting them does eliminate a lot of the full-on pressure sensation.
I can hear it in my own car and in every loaner I've had from Tesla. My experience is that it bugs some people (like me) and others (like my own wife) either don't "hear/feel" it or they do and it just doesn't bug them. My son spent a couple of hours diagnosing it with me one day and declared "Yeah, now I know what you are talking about...but I don't think you can do anything about it...seems like it is just the way the car is". Indeed, when I went in to Tesla service, the first tech who test rode with me had no idea what I was talking about, but the second tech knew immediately and indicated during the drive "Yes, I can hear what you are describing, but honestly I think they all do this and it is just inherent in the design"...I am inclined to agree with that assessment although minimizing hatch movement as much as possible definitely "improves" things.
Here is actually a pretty good description from an article on "The Truth about Cars" from a few years ago (note: I did not experience a difference when I loaded up the frunk):
Excerpt from Article (see section in Italics)
Road noise. There are several sources of noise in a typical car at speed: wind, tires, suspension, drivetrain, and screaming children. Electric drivetrains are insanely quiet, whereas BMW creates artificial drivetrain noise through the stereo system because … reasons. Wind and tire noise are largely the same between Tesla and any fancy German luxury sedan. I’ll modestly complain about suspension noise on the Tesla, though it’s not what you’d think. Like all good luxury cars, the Tesla’s suspension does its best to shave off the sharp insults from driving over crappy roads. What’s seemingly unique about the Tesla is what happens, even on the smoothest of perfect roads, when you hit a small bump, maybe a single pebble in the road. You get a muffled thud, basically a low frequency beat like you’d expect from a typical hip-hop album. This appears to be related, in part, to the “frunk” acting as a resonant chamber and in part to the large battery pack under the floor acting as a giant drum. Loading up the frunk with random luggage or boxes seems to help a lot. Since noticing this noise in my Tesla, I’ve paid close attention to other cars in which I’ll be riding, and the “thuds” tend to be less low-frequency boomy and have more high-frequency harmonics. I suspect this is because other cars have more irregular shapes to their floor (e.g., transmission tunnels). All that said, when you turn on the stereo, even at modest volume, you’ll never notice any of this.
Ur-Turn: Tesla Haters Gotta Hate - The Truth About Cars
I can hear it in my own car and in every loaner I've had from Tesla. My experience is that it bugs some people (like me) and others (like my own wife) either don't "hear/feel" it or they do and it just doesn't bug them. My son spent a couple of hours diagnosing it with me one day and declared "Yeah, now I know what you are talking about...but I don't think you can do anything about it...seems like it is just the way the car is". Indeed, when I went in to Tesla service, the first tech who test rode with me had no idea what I was talking about, but the second tech knew immediately and indicated during the drive "Yes, I can hear what you are describing, but honestly I think they all do this and it is just inherent in the design"...I am inclined to agree with that assessment although minimizing hatch movement as much as possible definitely "improves" things.
Here is actually a pretty good description from an article on "The Truth about Cars" from a few years ago (note: I did not experience a difference when I loaded up the frunk):
Excerpt from Article (see section in Italics)
Road noise. There are several sources of noise in a typical car at speed: wind, tires, suspension, drivetrain, and screaming children. Electric drivetrains are insanely quiet, whereas BMW creates artificial drivetrain noise through the stereo system because … reasons. Wind and tire noise are largely the same between Tesla and any fancy German luxury sedan. I’ll modestly complain about suspension noise on the Tesla, though it’s not what you’d think. Like all good luxury cars, the Tesla’s suspension does its best to shave off the sharp insults from driving over crappy roads. What’s seemingly unique about the Tesla is what happens, even on the smoothest of perfect roads, when you hit a small bump, maybe a single pebble in the road. You get a muffled thud, basically a low frequency beat like you’d expect from a typical hip-hop album. This appears to be related, in part, to the “frunk” acting as a resonant chamber and in part to the large battery pack under the floor acting as a giant drum. Loading up the frunk with random luggage or boxes seems to help a lot. Since noticing this noise in my Tesla, I’ve paid close attention to other cars in which I’ll be riding, and the “thuds” tend to be less low-frequency boomy and have more high-frequency harmonics. I suspect this is because other cars have more irregular shapes to their floor (e.g., transmission tunnels). All that said, when you turn on the stereo, even at modest volume, you’ll never notice any of this.
Ur-Turn: Tesla Haters Gotta Hate - The Truth About Cars
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I've placed the rope such that it contacts the middle of the rubber seal. Hatch movement is the problem, so it seems that supporting the lid (and tightening the seal) all the way around should be helpful. I thought about trying this from reading cab's post about taping the lid shut. The two corners at the bottom of the trunk, the rubber seal shows no indentation from the rope, so no support there (maybe the adjusters?). I also tried adjusting the strike plate downwards, and the lid was more secure, however I got the yellow warning that the lid was open (it wasn't loose). I don't know how those little rubber knobs are anywhere near enough to support that giant hatch back lid. I hadn't thought about the frunk, maybe there is something to try there.
Thanks. I am definitely going to try this or some version of it when I get a chance. I bought some solid rubber rod (3/4" I think from MSC Direct - Rubber Rods - MSCDirect.com ) to make my own solid rubber adjusters (for the pair on the body).
In that vein, I'm wondering if a 1/2" rubber rod "glued" (with black 3m weatherstrip adhesive) directly to the body OR on top of the existing seal would also work (and be a little less conspicuous than the rope). One thing I've learned is that it needs to be more solid that the squishy rubber they have now, but still needs some "give" to avoid transmitting vibration. The rubber rod below is 1/2" (not sure if that will have enough give, but it might). I did try to tape some store bought weatherstrip on top of the factory seal, but that's when I thought it was just air getting past the seal - it was way too soft to have imparted any actual support.
Did you put the rope ALL the way around the hatch (where it would contact the seal)?
1/2" Rubber Rod:
Amazon.com: CleverDelights Solid Rubber Cord - 1/2" Diameter - 10 Feet - Buna 70 Durometer - Black - 0.5" Round: Industrial & Scientific
Black 3m weatherstrip adhesive
Amazon.com: 3M 08008 Black Super Weatherstrip Adhesive Tube - 5 oz.: Automotive
As an aside, when I look at the Audi A7's hatch in pics online , it only appears to have 2 body side mounts, but have no idea how it contacts the seal. I know the Tesla BARELY contacts that seal.
One of the Porsche Cayman generations had an issue with a "clunk" from the hatch area, what owners discovered is that Porsche had suspended a big weight in the hatch under the trim. The weight would move when going over big bumps and hit the hatch itself resulting in a "clunk"...so some of them removed the weight and then discovered WHY Porsche had put the weight in there...to cancel out the resonant boom caused by the hatch! Owners ended up leaving the weight in there and just putting some felt or something around it so the clunk wouldn't be audible when the wight contacted the hatch on occasion. Of course that's an "engineering" solution and isn't exactly something I can replicate. ON an ironic note, I own a 67 Firebird Convertible and when GM cut the top off the car back in the day, it resulted in a lot of shake and vibration. Their answer was to put a 25 pound fluid filled cylindrical weight in each corner of the car (two under the front fenders and two in the trunk). We call them cocktail shakers. NVH...a black art and one Tesla hasn't really mastered yet IMO. (AND YEAH, I've done WAY to much research on this).
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Yes, I put the rope all the way around. I like the black solid rubber cord idea, and with the adhesive or black tape it would not be a distraction. I keep thinking I'll clean it up. I first tried attaching the rope to the underside of the lip of the seal, but I couldn't get it to stay in place.
I have read and tried the adjustments for six months now. No result. It is interesting that we seem to be okay with it since some others cars also have it. This is my 6th car, but none made this deafening vibration. I am hoping there are many others who are just living with it. Amazed to see new posts with hard rubber tubes and others trying to stuff packing to reduce the sound.
Can't we use the lemon law and file a class action case and return these #boomboxTeslas
elreydetodo
Member
My understanding is that this problem is because the rear liftgate tends to vibrate up and down naturally as the car drives. There are three stoppers on either side of it to help absorb the movement. The problem is that the slight movement is creating an effect where the air inside the cabin compresses and decompresses repeatedly, leading to a low pitch rumbling sound. Further compounding the problem, not everyone can actually hear sounds at such a low frequency. I hear them loud and clear and it drives me nuts. My spouse can't hear anything.
I brought my car to the service center and they used some sort of oil or dye to adjust all the contact points to an even and natural position so all 6 have equal contact between the liftgate lid and the base. This made the problem much better, but it's still noticeable when I have the radio off. If you adjust each of them up slightly it will absorb more of the vibration (probably because it holds the door in place more firmly so it can't vibrate), but then the alignment of the liftgate with the outside of the body panels is messed up. It's a trade-off.
I would ask the SC to adjust the stoppers all to a neutral position first, then maybe give them an extra adjustment past that (outward, so they push against the stoppers on the liftgate lid) to hold it more firmly. Be careful to adjust all of the stoppers by the same amount, or use a dab of mineral oil to check the size of the contact on each stopper to visually inspect for equal pressure on all of them.
I brought my car to the service center and they used some sort of oil or dye to adjust all the contact points to an even and natural position so all 6 have equal contact between the liftgate lid and the base. This made the problem much better, but it's still noticeable when I have the radio off. If you adjust each of them up slightly it will absorb more of the vibration (probably because it holds the door in place more firmly so it can't vibrate), but then the alignment of the liftgate with the outside of the body panels is messed up. It's a trade-off.
I would ask the SC to adjust the stoppers all to a neutral position first, then maybe give them an extra adjustment past that (outward, so they push against the stoppers on the liftgate lid) to hold it more firmly. Be careful to adjust all of the stoppers by the same amount, or use a dab of mineral oil to check the size of the contact on each stopper to visually inspect for equal pressure on all of them.
Would I then be correct in assuming that you don't hear this sound on a smooth highway?
Camera-Cruiser
Fully Charged
I had the same issue when I picked my CPO. A week later the Buena Park service center listened to my concerns and 24 hours later it was gone. No pressure waves, no booming or thudding. They explained about adjusting the stops, trim pieces, and securing cables and what not under the trim to alleviate it.
24 months later still good.
24 months later still good.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
This has happened to me also on every car I have owned. Usually some combination of rear windows open. Usually, adjusting the windows can make it go away. However, I hardly ever drive with the windows open (aerodynamics and road noise). I usually open the sunroof if I want fresh air. Never had a problem buffeting with the sunroof open.
I just got a new-to-me 2015 Model S and have been working on a low-frequency noise problem. There seem to be several things playing in this spectrum--the lift-gate-booming thing, road or tire noise, slipstream noise (which I guess is pressure buffeting per se), possibly some booming from the battery compartment below the cabin, and, as I am guessing, a fundamental mode of the cabin that couples with staggering efficiency to just about any impulse or low-frequency input. My theory is that nearly any impulse in the cabin sounds a lot like this fundamental mode, so it kind of ties several different possible issues together with a similar acoustic signature. I notice it especially at slow speeds on washboard-y pavement, but I have also noticed it when bumping the windows, and even while a train was passing and the tailgate happened to be open...resonant frequency selection. I've measured the specific noise I am targeting with peaks close to 100 C-weighted dB around 25Hz, and this was at around 15mph. I think it is too low to be road noise, and in my car it seems to have no dependency on slipstream condition or airspeed or windows / seals / liftgate position. TSCLACG's suggestion is the best thing I have found in terms of attenuation--that is, to place a fairly massive blob of porous damping material (blankets, pillows, sleeping bags) as close to the mid-cabin velocity node as possible. This leaves something to be desired in terms of visibility, of course. I'd love to hear anything anyone else has learned about this. My next steps are to try optimizing the properties and physical configuration of the damping material to see if i can come up with a way to still see out the rear window....
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