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Radar-based Energy Recuperation System

fiksegts

Active Member
Jan 6, 2013
1,286
1,195
Miami
on the Mercedes B250E

A first in an Electric Vehicle, radar-based technology monitors the speed of the vehicle ahead and its distance. As you adapt your driving speed to the flow of traffic, the system automatically adjusts the car's regenerative braking to recuperate as much energy as possible, extending the driving range of the battery. A pair of paddles behind the upper steering-wheel spokes also lets you manually select from three recuperation levels, from gliding to maximum, with just a flick of your fingers.

could be a nice feature to add via software update to TACC cars...
 

MorrisonHiker

Well-Known Member
Moderator
Mar 8, 2015
10,547
10,571
Colorado
A pair of paddles behind the upper steering-wheel spokes also lets you manually select from three recuperation levels, from gliding to maximum, with just a flick of your fingers.

The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV has paddles for manually changing through 6 levels of regen. Tesla could probably add a radar-based version but it could be nice if they had a manual paddle version available too.
 

Max*

Charging
Apr 8, 2015
6,672
3,835
NoVa
Wait, now I'm confused. Are we talking about pumping more than 60kw of regen in? If so, I'm all for that at lower SOC rates. If we're talking about lowering the 60kw down to 30kw, if 30kw is all we need at the given point in time to stop? Then, nah, that's useless. I can do that with my foot, and after driving the car for a while, you know how to feather the go pedal to get enough regen and not overdo it too much.
 
This isn't needed on the Tesla because regen is on accelerator lift-off and not on brake, it is automatically recovering the right amount because it's simply lifting off the pedal. This is only really needed in cars that only have regen on the brake, because the default would be no regen.

As for the paddles, I don't know that it's really that useful, it's already on the accelerator pedal, with almost infinite variation, and TACC makes it even easier to get it to do exactly what you want.
 

MorrisonHiker

Well-Known Member
Moderator
Mar 8, 2015
10,547
10,571
Colorado
Wait, now I'm confused. Are we talking about pumping more than 60kw of regen in? If so, I'm all for that at lower SOC rates. If we're talking about lowering the 60kw down to 30kw, if 30kw is all we need at the given point in time to stop? Then, nah, that's useless. I can do that with my foot, and after driving the car for a while, you know how to feather the go pedal to get enough regen and not overdo it too much.

This isn't needed on the Tesla because regen is on accelerator lift-off and not on brake, it is automatically recovering the right amount because it's simply lifting off the pedal. This is only really needed in cars that only have regen on the brake, because the default would be no regen.

As for the paddles, I don't know that it's really that useful, it's already on the accelerator pedal, with almost infinite variation, and TACC makes it even easier to get it to do exactly what you want.

Good points. I don't have experience with either system yet as I'm still waiting on my X (or S?). One of these days, I hope to be able to make a more informed opinion concerning Tesla's regen. :wink:
 

ohmman

Upright Member
Global Moderator
Feb 13, 2014
10,732
20,212
North Bay, CA
The analogous functionality in Tesla's case would be to have a TACC setting that allows some degrees of freedom around the set point. Then, based on slope and traffic, TACC could avoid regen where possible (coasting) and programmatically maximize range. Since I don't have TACC, I don't know how much it sticks to the set speed and how much it prioritizes energy conservation, but the latter would be useful on trips.
 

Max*

Charging
Apr 8, 2015
6,672
3,835
NoVa
The analogous functionality in Tesla's case would be to have a TACC setting that allows some degrees of freedom around the set point. Then, based on slope and traffic, TACC could avoid regen where possible (coasting) and programmatically maximize range. Since I don't have TACC, I don't know how much it sticks to the set speed and how much it prioritizes energy conservation, but the latter would be useful on trips.

Before v7 it stuck to the speed very well. After v7, it slows for turns, so it's not as hard-set anymore, but I've never seen it prioritize energy conservation.
 

MorrisonHiker

Well-Known Member
Moderator
Mar 8, 2015
10,547
10,571
Colorado
I don't understand what this system supposedly does. If your goal is to recapture energy then all you need to do is use regenerative braking as much as possible when slowing down. I don't see why you need any radar input or why the regenerative braking would need any "adjustment."

I think that it's not all about recapturing the most amount of energy possible but being able to recapture some energy while only slightly reducing speed. The paddles would let you choose your own desired level of regen. Imagine driving on the highway (without TACC) and preparing to pass a car but needing to slow down for a second so that a car can pass you before you get into the passing lane. You might take your foot off the accelerator to allow it to coast but you don't want full regen kicking in and slowing you way down.

Hmm. Now that I've posted the above, I see the OP does mention trying to recapture the most energy possible. :confused: I think I'd just want to be able to regen at various levels, depending on my preferences.
 

ohmman

Upright Member
Global Moderator
Feb 13, 2014
10,732
20,212
North Bay, CA
I don't understand what this system supposedly does. If your goal is to recapture energy then all you need to do is use regenerative braking as much as possible when slowing down. I don't see why you need any radar input or why the regenerative braking would need any "adjustment."

It sounds to me like they're mapping regen to the accelerator, based on the "paddles" behind the steering wheel. Normally in their vehicle, regen is tied to the brake. My guess is that "maximum" would be equivalent to the setting that Tesla always has on. In the case of the radar, imagine a car in front of you is braking - the Benz would "feather" the pedal the way we do now, but do it automatically in order to move with the traffic smoothly.

At least, that's how I'm reading it.
 

Max*

Charging
Apr 8, 2015
6,672
3,835
NoVa
I think that it's not all about recapturing the most amount of energy possible but being able to recapture some energy while only slightly reducing speed. The paddles would let you choose your own desired level of regen. Imagine driving on the highway (without TACC) and preparing to pass a car but needing to slow down for a second so that a car can pass you before you get into the passing lane. You might take your foot off the accelerator to allow it to coast but you don't want full regen kicking in and slowing you way down.

So then I'd let go of the accelerator only a little ;). You get used to the 1-pedal driving very quickly. The problem is switching to my wife's ICE afterwards, for the first 2-3 traffic lights, I keep forgetting that letting go of the accel will not kick in regen, heh.

Also you can select your desired level of regen right now (given it's only 2 choices): I let my mom drive once and she loved the regen. I let my step-dad drive once, and he hated the regen, made me turn it to low because he couldn't get used to it, he's used to an ICE and likes to let the car glide without touching the pedals.
 

MorrisonHiker

Well-Known Member
Moderator
Mar 8, 2015
10,547
10,571
Colorado
So then I'd let go of the accelerator only a little ;). You get used to the 1-pedal driving very quickly. The problem is switching to my wife's ICE afterwards, for the first 2-3 traffic lights, I keep forgetting that letting go of the accel will not kick in regen, heh.

Also you can select your desired level of regen right now (given it's only 2 choices): I let my mom drive once and she loved the regen. I let my step-dad drive once, and he hated the regen, made me turn it to low because he couldn't get used to it, he's used to an ICE and likes to let the car glide without touching the pedals.

Sounds like I still drive like your step-dad. I rarely ever use the brakes and got 185,000 miles out of the first set of pads. :smile: I'm sure I'll get used to one pedal driving once I get an EV. The Outlander PHEV owners seem to really like being able to adjust their level of regen but since it's a PHEV, maybe that's why they need the paddles vs. the accelerator. Seeing as how Tesla likes to control most functionality via the touchscreen, I'm guessing they would add more levels there before considering adding paddles...but as you indicate, you can just let off the pedal slightly!
 
on the Mercedes B250E

A first in an Electric Vehicle, radar-based technology monitors the speed of the vehicle ahead and its distance. As you adapt your driving speed to the flow of traffic, the system automatically adjusts the car's regenerative braking to recuperate as much energy as possible, extending the driving range of the battery. A pair of paddles behind the upper steering-wheel spokes also lets you manually select from three recuperation levels, from gliding to maximum, with just a flick of your fingers.

could be a nice feature to add via software update to TACC cars...

Can't figure out what this is for. Description is mostly nonsensical. Guess it's trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist in a car with decent controls like the Model S.

I don't understand what this system supposedly does. If your goal is to recapture energy then all you need to do is use regenerative braking as much as possible when slowing down. I don't see why you need any radar input or why the regenerative braking would need any "adjustment."

If your goal is to maximise energy efficiency then your aim should always be to coast - i.e. use regenerative braking as *little* as possible when slowing down.

A TACC system where you could set a minimum and maximum speed and the car is then free to vary within that range (and allowing for traffic) would most likely beat just about any human driver for efficiency.

Now that would be an interesting feature...

I rarely ever use the brakes and got 185,000 miles out of the first set of pads. :smile: I'm sure I'll get used to one pedal driving once I get an EV.

If you "rarely ever use the brakes" then you're already 1 pedal driving!
 

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