Ran out of juice, 12V and main pack drained, need info.

[islandbayy]

Epic. I do feel sorry for Islandbayy because he seems like a real nice dude... He pushed it too far and should've known better particularly considering all his instructional videos on charging, battery technology, etc... Having said that, I appreciate him having the guts to share his embarrassing experience so others won't hopefully go through this same thing

- - - Updated - - -


Mmmm warm packs of steak

I appreciate it. I push my 60 to its limits constantly, In 24,000 and 8 months, this was my first screw up.

- - - Updated - - -

Why do you think there's a battery heater function if not to protect the car?

It wasn't the battery heater that stopped Islandbayy reaching his destination, it was his miscalculation of weather conditions and elevation. Sure, if the battery heater hadn't come on he might have made it but he might also be posting here about his very expensive and ruined battery pack.

First and foremost, it was my miscalculation, and not enough planning on that stretch of road. Secondly, yes the heater helps protect the pack, however as I mentioned previously, the pack was already hot/warm and no limits were in place when it kicked in. This has actually happened once before, end of November. I was on the freeway coming home, just drove 120 miles. had 10mi left on the rated range and 3 miles to go to get home and the pack heater kicked in. I believe that was firmware 4.5

 

[JohnQ]

First and foremost, it was my miscalculation, and not enough planning on that stretch of road. Secondly, yes the heater helps protect the pack, however as I mentioned previously, the pack was already hot/warm and no limits were in place when it kicked in. This has actually happened once before, end of November. I was on the freeway coming home, just drove 120 miles. had 10mi left on the rated range and 3 miles to go to get home and the pack heater kicked in. I believe that was firmware 4.5

Yeah, it is irritating when you're driving along, managing your electrons efficiently, then the pack heater comes on and you see that big spike on the energy graph for a few minutes. That happens to me in Eco mode as well (most recently yesterday on the way home from Boston with some strong headwinds). Sorry that the miscalculation was so painful for you.

 

[islandbayy]

The experiences of Islandbayy, han170 and others on this thread are a compelling worst-case scenario tutorial for us relatively new MS owners to read. Thanks.

I've been doing some disaster planning and even though my manual doesn't mention it anywhere, my MS actually has a tow hook stored under it's frunk mat and it has a threaded hole to screw the tow hook into behind the nosecone on the driver's side. I'm not sure why, but the tow hook has left-hand threads! This little hole should have big red reflective label around it saying "Tow Hook" and indicate left-hand threads with a big arrow.

From reading this thread, I've made some notes about the phases of the MS automatic shut down and the various 12v jumping issues and tricks, but I'm wondering if this is all nicely documented somewhere already, rather than having to assemble it "tribal knowledge" style.

the older production models like mine do not have the tow hook . I believe they started with those around #17000ish.

 

[dsm363]

I think if you are planning things so close that the pack heater kicking on in the last ten miles could ruin your trip then planning on a bigger buffer might be appropriate. Anyway, glad it all worked out.

 

[islandbayy]

In theory, Tesla could make a box cabled with two Model S charge port connectors. It would essentially be a modulated direct battery-to-battery emergency charging system. eMotorWerks did a test where they CHAdeMO charged a Leaf directly from a RAV4 EV battery - no grid power input at all. RAV-2-LEAF - charging a Leaf from a RAV via CHAdeMO using one of our chargers - YouTube

I actually wonder why this is not available. share some power and rescue a stranded MS. even severely limited to a low level, it's better then getting stranded.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe, but I still wonder why this trip had to happen in the dead of winter with sub-freezing temps and strong blasts of arctic winds cutting down range even further. I love my 60. I've taken it to SoCal twice on road trips. And I know I could take it north up to Canada on I-5 now if I wanted to and probably make the trip without incident. Probably. But with a 60, I really don't have much margin of error for certain trips. I won't be taking my 60 on the northerly route in the winter time, and certainly not with family in the car (which is just fine by me, I didn't buy the car for lengthy road trips although I have enjoyed doing that where I had plentiful charging options). For someone who is seemingly taking long roadtrips every time I check on this forum, I think Islandbayy should strongly consider upgrading to an 85.

My jobs seasonal, so I can't do any kind of trips during the summer. this is it. Is live a 85. trying to figure out a way to make it happen. trading the car in is not feasible. I am trying to make a battery upgrade work, I just need to wait until the timing is right.i would have lived a 85 from the get go, just couldn't afford it.

 

[Bill D]

the older production models like mine do not have the tow hook . I believe they started with those around #17000ish.

With my VIN 29,xxx, I would expect the Tow Hook to be at least be mentioned in my Owner's Manual if over 12,000 cars with Tow Hooks were delivered before mine. Even though I have a Tow Hook, my page 32 shows how the tow chains should be connected to rear lower suspension arms, the same as your manual shows.

Thanks again Professor Islandbayy, on behalf of the freshman class, for your demonstration of things that can go wrong. I've planned road trips for March and April. Your thread will be on my mind at each charging stop.

BTW, I was also confused about why the jump box did not enable your 12v services. It seems like it should have.

 

[andrewket]

Download the latest version of the manual. The tow hook and suspension options are both there.

 

[GDH]

the older production models like mine do not have the tow hook . I believe they started with those around #17000ish.

Did you ever get the issue with your frunk leaking water fixed?

 

[abasile]

I can't think if any downsides to lowering the battery heater threshold temperature whenever there is less than 10-20 miles range.

Pulling high current from a cold battery at low SOC is not a good thing. Protecting the battery is definitely a goal here.

Tesla has no "responsibility" to change the software to lower the battery heater threshold temperature when a charger is within reach. The car is already great as is, and drivers should take care to avoid low SOCs.

That said, addressing minor details like this can be considered part of keeping the Model S the world's greatest car. Of course, there are undoubtedly much higher priorities right now, like finishing the Model X. It isn't as if Tesla has had decades to perfect everything. I do know what it's like to have an ever-growing software wish list.

 

[NickInLab]

If the generator actually works with the car - which is not necessarily a given - it would only charge at 3-5 km per hour depending on temperature etc. You could be there a full day just to get enough to reach the next charging station.

I guess it depends on how the generator was brought... just a thought here, but most tow trucks already have a PTO to run the hydraulic pump, and PTO generators are an off-the-shelf item. Based on some back-of-the-napkin math, it seems like a purpose built generator (maybe with a hydraulic motor, so the tow truck operator can keep the existing system, and a ChaDeMo or SAE outlet) could probably deliver 40 to 50 kW to the charge port inlet. Ten minutes at that rate would have refilled the "reserve," heated the battery and given islandbayy enough rated miles to reach the Supercharger. That's probably less time than it takes to do all the paperwork, lift the car on the side of the highway and put it back down at the Supercharger.

 

[Bill D]

Download the latest version of the manual. The tow hook and suspension options are both there.

Thanks. I see they are in the latest version.

 

[islandbayy]

Did you ever get the issue with your frunk leaking water fixed?

Yes/No, The frunk is considered a non-water tight compartment. Their are actually (at least on my older model) drain holes in the frunk. In fact, during extreme downpours and road splash, I do get some water in the frunk through the front seal. It is Water Resistant, not water tight.

 

[GDH]

Their are actually (at least on my older model) drain holes in the frunk.

WTF!.......shut up with that, there are not holes in your frunk!

I will check mine in the am but I do not remember seeing drain holes!

 

[GlennAlanBerry]

There is no way that this is Tesla's fault. People who are suggesting that Tesla should modify the car to somehow prevent something like this from ever happening are just being foolish.

Tesla can and probably will make improvements in the navigation software to take things like elevation change and temperature into account for routing, but ultimately the responsibility for making sure you have the range to make it somewhere lies with the driver. It is just like if you are a pilot, where you need to properly plan your trip legs to make sure you can make it.

 

[islandbayy]

WTF!.......shut up with that, there are not holes in your frunk!

I will check mine in the am but I do not remember seeing drain holes!

Mine has at least 2 drain holes.

 

[MS60]

Yes, I did, and do lush my 60 beyond its limits. I made a stupid mistake not to charge longer and I do and have take full responsibility, I do not deny that.

- - - Updated - - -

You may consider using EVtripPlanner.com to estimate energy needed for a certain stretch of the trip.



EV Trip Planner's "Route Energy Planner Beta" is a great tool to estimate how much rated miles or energy is needed to travel from point A to B. You can input the type of car you have, 19 or 21 inch tires, outside temp, cabin temp, payload weight and it can calculate the energy or rated miles you need base on the above plus taking elevation into consideration. This is very informative especially if it's very cold out, or for my case traveling (climbing) into the Smoky Mountains on my trip from NJ to Alabama.


MS60, Vin#49xx, 2/21/2013 delivery. 30,500mi as of 2/28/2013

 

[islandbayy]

Yes, I did, and do lush my 60 beyond its limits. I made a stupid mistake not to charge longer and I do and have take full responsibility, I do not deny that.

- - - Updated - - -

You may consider using EVtripPlanner.com to estimate energy needed for a certain stretch of the trip.



EV Trip Planner's "Route Energy Planner Beta" is a great tool to estimate how much rated miles or energy is needed to travel from point A to B. You can input the type of car you have, 19 or 21 inch tires, outside temp, cabin temp, payload weight and it can calculate the energy or rated miles you need base on the above plus taking elevation into consideration. This is very informative especially if it's very cold out, or for my case traveling (climbing) into the Smoky Mountains on my trip from NJ to Alabama.


MS60, Vin#49xx, 2/21/2013 delivery. 30,500mi as of 2/28/2013

I've heard of it but never tried it, I will now though, thanks for the tip!

 

[hiroshiy]

ã€ã‚ªãƒ¼ãƒˆãƒ¢ãƒ¼ãƒ†ã‚£ãƒ–ワールド14】EV社会ã§å¿…é ˆã¨ãªã‚‹æ€¥é€Ÿå……電機能付ãç©è¼‰è»Š | レスãƒãƒ³ã‚¹

First of all thank you to Islandbayy for sharing the experience in detail. We all learn from experience.

Now the above link shows pictures of currently deployed "charging flatbed" in western part of Japan. It was 12kWh battery with onboard generator, providing 20kW (approx HPWC equivalent of charging speed) CHAdeMO output. Just for your enjoyment

 

[Lerxt]

As an owner in waiting, am I correct in saying that the range displayed on the speedo is not kWh left divided by your recent average driving kWh usage?

Can on someone tell me what range actually represents and how it's worked out?

 

[Neech]

I appreciate it. I push my 60 to its limits constantly, In 24,000 and 8 months, this was my first screw up.

- - - Updated - - -


First and foremost, it was my miscalculation, and not enough planning on that stretch of road. Secondly, yes the heater helps protect the pack, however as I mentioned previously, the pack was already hot/warm and no limits were in place when it kicked in. This has actually happened once before, end of November. I was on the freeway coming home, just drove 120 miles. had 10mi left on the rated range and 3 miles to go to get home and the pack heater kicked in. I believe that was firmware 4.5

You also mentioned the car windows were covered in ice - seems to me the battery would be iced over too and will need the heater to maintain the proper operating temperature. AFIK there is no temperature gauge to verify how "hot" the battery really is. This very cold winter is giving us lots of learning experiences and we need to overestimate charging needs just in case.