Ran out of juice, 12V and main pack drained, need info.

[Kraken]

I think you misunderstand. If you have to go find a a charger you failed to plan appropriately. And if others' lives are at steak you better have a damn solid plan.

Even in summer I plan for 360wh/mi. 20% is a reasonable buffer to do what I can to prevent thousands of people seeing a tesla on the side of the road... Because they will always assume owner stupidity.

I'm not sure what grudge you have with him, but something seems like it is personal between you and him. You're being extremely harsh. He said he had a 40 mile buffer. That is 20% just like you suggest he should have used. He knows he made a mistake, and I haven't seen him blame anyone but himself. Sometimes in life "stuff" happens. It sounds like he actually did some planning and missed something. It's a lesson for all, and it wasnt anyone's fault but his, but it sounds like he has learned his lesson and doesn't need excessive scolding. A few others have pointed out that he should be more careful, especially with others, but I don't think your rant was necessary.

as for zero is zero... I don't think it would work as too often an actual mile and a rated mile almost never works out. In fact, it's usually safest to keep an eye on the energy chart. All cars I've ever seen that were ice and had a mileage to empty estimate go to "fill up soon" well before even hitting 0 miles (usually 20-50 miles is when it switches). The model s is the ony car I've heard of that let's you get to 1. Zero as zero only works if they make it a percentage or kwh readout instead of mileage. There are too many variables if it is listed as miles.

 

[efusco]

I can't believe noone's said it before now...but someone has to use the "B" word Broder

 

[HankLloydRight]

Thanks for openly sharing your experience Islandbayy -- it's something we all can learn from.

And in all good fun...

 

[mknox]

I received a card with mine that has the information required, to include connecting the hooks to the control arms and using a block of wood to protect the front as it's winched, etc. Perhaps they stopped that later?

I didn't get the card, but printed the page I posted above plus the one with the winching instructions, laminated them and keep them in the glove box in case I have to hand it to a tow truck driver some day. Ditto with the page with lifting instructions which did come in handy for the tire shop that installed my winter tires.

- - - Updated - - -

It actually tells you at the bottom of the instrument cluster, right below range and also there is little red "i" icon on top of the screen
Plus the usage is going up. You see in in your speedo, when in idle or in neutral

I get the warning message, but not all the time. Sometimes if I'm sitting at a light, the power meter can be between 10 and 20 kW with the car stationary. Obviously the heating system.

 

[ModelX]

I would also like to thank Islandbayy for sharing. I am very open to learning without having to go through this myself!

 

[SeminoleFSU]

There's so much off the wall information in this thread it is ridiculous. I'm going to sound like a jerk and I'm okay with it.

First and foremost. If you run out of range while driving a Model S, it is your own damn fault. Without a doubt and nothing will sway my opinion of that.

Why on earth would someone who's had a Model S (for what now, 8-10 months?) and lives just a couple miles from me (and drives their's more) think that getting 1:1 rated miles to miles driven even be remotely possible in this type of weather? On top of that, you had your family, older adults and children in the car with you and inadequate planning got you stuck in a very dangerous situation.

When trying to figure out if I'm going to make it somewhere, or how much range I have in general I don't use the rates miles display.. especially in this cold. I use the energy usage graph in the car and use the 15-30 mile range and the average (not instant) range estimation. I hope everyone takes a look at that and uses it. It give you a real estimate of how many miles you can go based on how much energy you've actually been using. I'm sure islandbayy was using that because it lulls you into a false sense of security because it can't account for something changing. but usually I just expect 100 miles of daily use of the car before having to charge.


Second, No Tesla should not make any changes to the car. When it says 0 miles, THAT MEANS STOP DRIVING IT. Them "hiding miles" from us is just programming for owners making poor decisions and situations like this prove that it is needed.

You should have already planned better to be able to make it to a charger. Either an intermediate quick top off at a Level 2, a range charge elsewhere or knowing that you were stretching this leg and just drove a bit slower. (don't think I don't see your posts about how you "slow down to 70".. or your runs to 120mph on public roads. That's not representing us "Tesla Owners" well). In this weather I budget for 450 - 500 wh/mi even with range mode on. That means I can drive about 160-175 miles per charge, and if I'm planning a trip I wouldn't expect to go more than 125 miles per charge for a safety buffer. Back to the first thing that makes me mad about this post, if you are driving other people (friends, co-workers, or your own damn offspring) the first thing you need to consider for the trip is their safety. No room for discussion there, it is #1.



Now I understand in the frenzy of things that happened there were obviously some things that were missed. The 12V system being low (it obviously wasn't dead) is very odd IMO.. If the car can't make it into tow mode, boosting with a pack should have helped so long as you had a really good connection on the jump start posts. If you could get in the car, you should have been able to open the Frunk. I would have torn our all the trim under there to find the 12V battery if you didn't have a good connection to go right to the battery. If that still didn't work, I would have found a wrench, pulled the wheels and removed the parking brake calipers.. There must be a mechanical retraction mechanism.. I know you know how brakes work.


For someone as prominent as you make yourself within this community, I'm disappointed on many levels. More so than just grammar this time.

Epic. I do feel sorry for Islandbayy because he seems like a real nice dude... He pushed it too far and should've known better particularly considering all his instructional videos on charging, battery technology, etc... Having said that, I appreciate him having the guts to share his embarrassing experience so others won't hopefully go through this same thing

- - - Updated - - -

And if others' lives are at steak you better have a damn solid plan.

Mmmm warm packs of steak

 

[AndreyATC]

I noticed battery heater comes on roughly when it's below 30kw regen limit
And yes, that thing is power hungry
My guess is around 5-6kw of energy goes into this, and probably 25-30% range decrease

 

[abasile]

As a Nissan LEAF driver of three years, I can certainly sympathize with Islandbayy. Although I've never run out of charge, I've gone into the car's "reserve" on multiple occasions. It's easy to do when you don't have much range to start with. When I eventually purchase a Model X, I intend to get the largest battery size available, which could quite possibly be more than 85 kWh.

It does seem quite likely that he would have made it to the Supercharger had the battery heater not kicked in. While this is a corner case, it seems to me that the vehicle's software could be made to do better. Although no one should be encouraged to go past "0 miles", ideally the software should do everything reasonably possible to enable the driver to make it to the next charger. My suggestion to Tesla would be to modify the software as follows:

IF:
(a) The destination programmed into the navigation system is a charging location, AND
(b) The state of charge is below some very low threshold, AND
(c) The remaining distance to the destination is very short, i.e., below a distance threshold like, say, 5 miles
THEN:
- By all means, lower the temperature threshold at which the battery heater kicks in!

Just a thought.

 

[islandbayy]

Too tired to read through and respond tonight, just letting everyone know we made it home with no problems. Attaching a little treat as a preview of why and what I was working on in Niagara Falls, which should be ready for your viewing pleasure in about 1-2 weeks. a few thousand photos and about 4 hrs of video I need to go through and edit yet.

Cheers everyone, and have a good night!

 

[Kraken]

Well, that explains why he didnt take a different car as had been suggested....

 

[NigelM]

My suggestion to Tesla would be to modify the software as follows:

IF:
(a) The destination programmed into the navigation system is a charging location, AND
(b) The state of charge is below some very low threshold, AND
(c) The remaining distance to the destination is very short, i.e., below a distance threshold like, say, 5 miles
THEN:
- By all means, lower the temperature threshold at which the battery heater kicks in!

Why do you think there's a battery heater function if not to protect the car?

It wasn't the battery heater that stopped Islandbayy reaching his destination, it was his miscalculation of weather conditions and elevation. Sure, if the battery heater hadn't come on he might have made it but he might also be posting here about his very expensive and ruined battery pack.

 

[brianman]

I can't believe noone's said it before now...but someone has to use the "B" word Broder

I was thinking it as well, but there's a flavor to it that isn't in play here. IMO

 

[GSP]

As a Nissan LEAF driver of three years, I can certainly sympathize with Islandbayy. Although I've never run out of charge, I've gone into the car's "reserve" on multiple occasions. It's easy to do when you don't have much range to start with. When I eventually purchase a Model X, I intend to get the largest battery size available, which could quite possibly be more than 85 kWh.

It does seem quite likely that he would have made it to the Supercharger had the battery heater not kicked in. While this is a corner case, it seems to me that the vehicle's software could be made to do better. Although no one should be encouraged to go past "0 miles", ideally the software should do everything reasonably possible to enable the driver to make it to the next charger. My suggestion to Tesla would be to modify the software as follows:

IF:
(a) The destination programmed into the navigation system is a charging location, AND
(b) The state of charge is below some very low threshold, AND
(c) The remaining distance to the destination is very short, i.e., below a distance threshold like, say, 5 miles
THEN:
- By all means, lower the temperature threshold at which the battery heater kicks in!

Just a thought.

I like this idea. I think it could be simplified to:

IF: The state of charge is below some very low threshold
THEN: lower the temperature threshold at which the battery heater kicks in

This would not rely on the driver programming his destination into the nav system. I can't think if any downsides to lowering the battery heater threshold temperature whenever there is less than 10-20 miles range.

GSP

 

[han170]

Islandbayy, I greatly appreciate you posting this adventure. I can sympathize with you a little. My MS arrived a year ago today. I live in Syracuse, NY and have a son in college in Cleveland, OH. He of course wanted me to drive to Cleveland to show him the car. After doing a range charge at a fellow Tesla owner in Buffalo, I thought by driving sixty and drafting trucks I could make the 190 miles from Buffalo to Cleveland. I hit a driving rain storm and fierce winds coming off of Lake Erie. I saw that my project range was dropping beyond what I needed so I stopped at a KOA to charge for a couple of hours. They may not be open this time of year so that probably was not an option for you. Even with that, I limped into Cleveland with about 10 miles of range left. That drive along Lake Erie on I-90 is difficult with wind and hills. Tesla is not planning a Supercharger between Buffalo and Macedonia, OH (South of Cleveland) and they really need one because of the conditions. As others have said in other forums, a Supercharger needs to be planned for Erie, PA.

 

[efusco]

I was thinking it as well, but there's a flavor to it that isn't in play here. IMO

I agree, and am very sympathetic to his plight..particularly where I live I've arrived with <15 miles range left many times and my last "long" trip ~220 miles in 20F weather was pretty sketchy at times with essentially no charging options along the route. Cold weather is clearly a major aggravation for stretching range in this car.

 

[Bill D]

The experiences of Islandbayy, han170 and others on this thread are a compelling worst-case scenario tutorial for us relatively new MS owners to read. Thanks.

I've been doing some disaster planning and even though my manual doesn't mention it anywhere, my MS actually has a tow hook stored under it's frunk mat and it has a threaded hole to screw the tow hook into behind the nosecone on the driver's side. I'm not sure why, but the tow hook has left-hand threads! This little hole should have big red reflective label around it saying "Tow Hook" and indicate left-hand threads with a big arrow.

From reading this thread, I've made some notes about the phases of the MS automatic shut down and the various 12v jumping issues and tricks, but I'm wondering if this is all nicely documented somewhere already, rather than having to assemble it "tribal knowledge" style.

 

[Duckjybe]

In times like this it would be nice if Tesla had mobile superchargers. I wonder if it would be feasible to put a very specialized 85kwh battery on a truck with the ability to charge it and then discharge it into a model S at similar rates to a supercharger (60 miles in 10minutes)? This would reduce range anxiety quite a bit if there were enough of these mobile charging trucks around.

 

[Kipernicus]

We ran into extremely high winds, and had miles upon miles of uphill driving. I was on that strech averaging 290 to 300 w/mile

you misunderstood, I was GETTING 230 w/mile 45-55 mph.

That is some gosu, jerry33-level hypermiling! impressive, but sorry you had the ordeal.

 

[dhanson865]

I'd like to thank islandbayy for sharing all he did in this thread. He showed restraint not responding irately to the people that provoked him in this thread.

I learned enough in this thread to make it worth slogging through 10+ pages, I just wish the mods had moved one or two posts to the snippiness thread.

 

[FredTMC]

In times like this it would be nice if Tesla had mobile superchargers. I wonder if it would be feasible to put a very specialized 85kwh battery on a truck with the ability to charge it and then discharge it into a model S at similar rates to a supercharger (60 miles in 10minutes)? This would reduce range anxiety quite a bit if there were enough of these mobile charging trucks around.

A generator could have been brought to the car...