I agree and that is why I made the point to look at the 2015 Supercharger network planned locations and then envision how much more extensive it will be in 2017 when the Model E is introduced.
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Ran out of juice, 12V and main pack drained, need info.
- Thread starter islandbayy
- Start date
I agree and that is why I made the point to look at the 2015 Supercharger network planned locations and then envision how much more extensive it will be in 2017 when the Model E is introduced.
So what would you like to see delayed in order to enable? We have soooo many ideas and each one is a good one. But to implement any of them means something else is delayed.
Better not be my X.
This is true, there have been many good ideas, but no need to delay in order to enable. One could simply hire more staff in order to expand faster. You seem very 'anxious' to have your Model X sooner than later. Think of each update and expansion to the Model S's software and hardware as a test mule for a better Model X.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
This is true, there have been many good ideas, but no need to delay in order to enable. One could simply hire more staff in order to expand faster. You seem very 'anxious' to have your Model X sooner than later. Think of each update and expansion to the Model S's software and hardware as a test mule for a better Model X.
"Anxious" seems like a bit of an overstatement. Think of my response more as one from someone who has led more than one multidisciplinary project from concept onto the manufacturing floor: Every new feature request seems more than reasonable. But when you look at the total number of requests, they just can't happen overnight.
If Tesla were to just keep hiring to satisfy all the requests, there would actually be a slowdown on releases. Ever read The Mythical Man Month? "Simply hire more staff" is not the solution to getting out quality products and shortening schedule at this point in the engineering timeline.
As far as my X goes, people can tell you I haven't been "anxious" about the delivery date. But thanks for attaching that word to me. No, I just don't think Tesla should drop what they're doing and retool releases because yet-another-nice-feature-request has come in the door.
Agreed. As a former product manager I can say from experience that continual "feature creep" was something that had to be firmly resisted.
Duckjybe
Member
For the record, I have close to 30k miles on my Roadster and never had a miscalculation that would result in an emergency of this type. It's just not realistic. (And it's not because I'm a conservative kind of person.
Try driving in the north where temperatures vary widely between 32 F and -32F over the course of your trip along with wet or snow covered roads and having winter tires. Combine that with very few charging stations around here compared to California and a miscalculation is all the more likely. Especially for a new EV owner. I put 25000 miles on my S in one year and have done a few road trips. I am conservative in my range estimations and use math based on distance and guesswork based on temp, road conditions and wind. The average person will not perform this kind of analysis. At this stage of the game it is not dead simple to go on a road trip in the cold. Hopefully v6 helps range estimation better.
With ICE vehicles you have the capability to bring and add fuel quickly to the vehicle and so you should with EV's. People run out of gas all the time even though there are gas stations all over. So will EV drivers run out of charge. I like the ability to connect two cars together to transfer electrons. A separate output port could be built into the car so no external box is needed.
As as far as mobile charging trucks, any company could potentially do this. But I don't think anybody could make a business out of it as the capital cost would be high. Also they would not have Tesla's technology to do it with batteries.
Yep. I haven't read this entire thread but some of the things proposed are of limited or no value to most EV drivers, only to hardcore enthusiasts. It's always interesting to speak to relatively new EV drivers and/or those who are totally non-technical.
AAA already has at least 1 EV rescue truck w/on-board CHAdeMO DC FC and apparently J1772. I've seen the one pictured at National Plug In Day 2013 Cupertino DeAnza College SF BayLEAFs Nissan in operation charging a Leaf via CHAdeMO as a demo. The engine powering that DC FC was quite loud.
Back to the sad tale of the OP, refused by rollback operators and left on the shoulder of I-271:
When the MS rear axle is locked there is NO easy way to physically release the parking brake caliper. Instead DRAG the car along the ground using the ubiquitous yellow straps that every tow truck carries. Wrap the straps around the rear rims using spokes nearest the ground. Car will roll/slide easily without harming anything at all. The front tires will roll right up onto the deck. When the rear tires reach the rollback deck continue sliding them up the deck if possible (the diamondplate is grippier). A pair of MacDonalds Trays are perfect for placing under the tires to drag across trailer decks, metal or wood (but are not necessary to be used on the ground!). Smear engine oil, axle grease or bacon fat on the metal deck if need be so the tires can slide easily (lacking the cafeteria trays). MS should go nose first up onto the rollback so the (locked) rear wheels only have to slide a minimum distance. Driver will normally back up the highway from in front anyway. Weight-wise there is no difference which way it goes up on the deck as the MS is 48/52 weight distribution. All this will be news to most tow operators so copy it down on your list of steps to (try) to get MS into TOW MODE, etc for your glove-box emergency notes. The more facts you have for the tow-person, the sooner her frown will turn upside down and the quicker you'll get outta there. :smile:
@bonnie - this would make a nice separate thread: 'How to Road Trip w/o using all them SCs'.
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When the MS rear axle is locked there is NO easy way to physically release the parking brake caliper. Instead DRAG the car along the ground using the ubiquitous yellow straps that every tow truck carries. Wrap the straps around the rear rims using spokes nearest the ground. Car will roll/slide easily without harming anything at all. The front tires will roll right up onto the deck. When the rear tires reach the rollback deck continue sliding them up the deck if possible (the diamondplate is grippier). A pair of MacDonalds Trays are perfect for placing under the tires to drag across trailer decks, metal or wood (but are not necessary to be used on the ground!). Smear engine oil, axle grease or bacon fat on the metal deck if need be so the tires can slide easily (lacking the cafeteria trays). MS should go nose first up onto the rollback so the (locked) rear wheels only have to slide a minimum distance. Driver will normally back up the highway from in front anyway. Weight-wise there is no difference which way it goes up on the deck as the MS is 48/52 weight distribution. All this will be news to most tow operators so copy it down on your list of steps to (try) to get MS into TOW MODE, etc for your glove-box emergency notes. The more facts you have for the tow-person, the sooner her frown will turn upside down and the quicker you'll get outta there. :smile:
@bonnie - this would make a nice separate thread: 'How to Road Trip w/o using all them SCs'.
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Cottonwood
Roadster#433, Model S#S37
mknox
Well-Known Member
> Is this theory, or have you actually tried this technique? [Cottonwood]
You raise a good point re lifting the MS front end with the trailing end of the rollback deck. The nose might get in the way but jacking up the front of the MS a foot or so could be enough to clear. Or use the lift bar to get it off the ground. Lifting using the rb deck on the rear end does not appear to be a problem as there is plenty of clearance. But you'd have to arrive coming in the opposite direction on the highway or some other way turn around. The Rollback is a versatile tool in the hands of a motivated operator.
Denver Service mentioned the plastic trays. If I had trays I would have used them going up my trailer ramps on the locked wheels. I used a forklift instead. An MS with those yellow straps drags along clay/gravel *very* easily with just a lightweight 20hp diesel tractor. Rollback has lots more pull and once you get the locked rear tires up to the deck they should slide up easily since the winch cable is parallel to the deck. Since the straps are as close to the ground as possible nothing is being strained except the tread contact patch. But you can soon enough even that out with a series of celebratory smokin' donuts. :biggrin:
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You raise a good point re lifting the MS front end with the trailing end of the rollback deck. The nose might get in the way but jacking up the front of the MS a foot or so could be enough to clear. Or use the lift bar to get it off the ground. Lifting using the rb deck on the rear end does not appear to be a problem as there is plenty of clearance. But you'd have to arrive coming in the opposite direction on the highway or some other way turn around. The Rollback is a versatile tool in the hands of a motivated operator.
Denver Service mentioned the plastic trays. If I had trays I would have used them going up my trailer ramps on the locked wheels. I used a forklift instead. An MS with those yellow straps drags along clay/gravel *very* easily with just a lightweight 20hp diesel tractor. Rollback has lots more pull and once you get the locked rear tires up to the deck they should slide up easily since the winch cable is parallel to the deck. Since the straps are as close to the ground as possible nothing is being strained except the tread contact patch. But you can soon enough even that out with a series of celebratory smokin' donuts. :biggrin:
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I would imagine every tow truck driver knows how to do it. Technically it can be done. However for liability reasons they commonly refuse to do it under the type of circumstances in the original post.
There is a possibility that using such methods could damage the vehicle. Tesla might void the warranty if they new such methods were used. There is a good chance that Tesla or the owner would try to blame any problems whether or not they are related to the use of such methods.
The drag and snatch method is commonly used during repossessions. I've seen it used many times, though not specifically on a Tesla. I see no reason that it could not be used on a Tesla. In repossessions the banks typically waver any tow damage liability.
Full disclosure, I only read up until about page 13-14 of this thread (have to go back to work now), but wanted to say this:
I want to credit islandbayy for posting his experiences. We all make mistakes and I welcome the opportunity to learn from his and others. If we want to encourage other forum members to do the same we should use responses that we ourselves would appreciate as OPs in this situation. I may very well do some stuff on the road that seemed like a good idea at the time, but dumb in hindsight, and if I post about it here I'll thank any self-proclaimed "jerk" to keep their thoughts to themselves if it does nothing more than reiterating what was already posted.
I have trouble thinking that if I was in spitting distance of a supercharger I would take a shot of making it there, rather than pulling over and calling a tow truck, no matter what messages came up on the dashboard. Well, that is to say... I would have up until reading this thread.
I want to credit islandbayy for posting his experiences. We all make mistakes and I welcome the opportunity to learn from his and others. If we want to encourage other forum members to do the same we should use responses that we ourselves would appreciate as OPs in this situation. I may very well do some stuff on the road that seemed like a good idea at the time, but dumb in hindsight, and if I post about it here I'll thank any self-proclaimed "jerk" to keep their thoughts to themselves if it does nothing more than reiterating what was already posted.
I have trouble thinking that if I was in spitting distance of a supercharger I would take a shot of making it there, rather than pulling over and calling a tow truck, no matter what messages came up on the dashboard. Well, that is to say... I would have up until reading this thread.
Hi, @physicsfita,
I am sympathetic to your concern as my two greatest concerns about purchasing Model S were (a) winter performance of a very powerful rear-wheel drive car and (b) long-distance trips. The answer to (a) was Nokiian Hakkapolita R2 snow tires, with which I have observed quite good performance on snow, ice and slush. The answer to (b), IMHO, is asking and answering the question, "what is your use case?"
If you are going to be making frequent long trips of erratic destination and duration and with little spare time for unpredictable amounts of charging, you may well be better off with a hybrid such as the Volt.
On the other hand, if the bulk of your driving is within a 100 mile radius of your home, a 85kwh Model S should do just fine. You'll charge up to 235 or 265 miles of range every night and make it home just fine. No worries about charging elsewhere during the day.
For longer trips, I have found that a little bit of planning works just fine, especially if you are traveling major highways. For instance, my wife suddenly decided to go to a regional environmental conference in Long Island over the weekend. A quick peek at Google Maps showed that she could hit the Milford, CT Supercharger along the way. Suddenly, the whole trip was easy as pie. She was able to drive 65-75 mph the whole way, charge at Milford for 15 minutes, catch the ferry over to Long Island (from Bridgeport), roam around LI, and then reverse the trip the next day.
Many (most?) of us are NOT putting in the level of planning described elsewhere on the forum.
At the end of the day, it all comes down to TIME. You'll probably never run out of juice if you are a responsible driver, just like you never run out of gas. But refill time for gas is 5 minutes, while refill time for Model S ranges from a few minutes (Supercharger, partial charge) to an hour (Supercharger, full charge of an empty battery) to a few hours or overnight (40A, partial or wholly empty battery) to two days (120V/15A circuit, empty battery).
After 10,000 miles of local, intrastate and inter-state driving, I am very happy with my Model S. I last visited a gas station on August 7, 2013. I have used public as well as private chargers, Superchargers and once -- only ONCE! -- found myself in "the wilds" looking to accumulate some extra charge as a buffer before returning home. A nearby RV park solved that problem for me.
So... what's your use case?
Alan
P.S. My other car is a 2013 Prius v wagon. We've had a 2004 Prius and a 2010 Prius as well. They have been great cars. But after living with Model S, I confess that I just HATE getting back into a Prius.
I am sympathetic to your concern as my two greatest concerns about purchasing Model S were (a) winter performance of a very powerful rear-wheel drive car and (b) long-distance trips. The answer to (a) was Nokiian Hakkapolita R2 snow tires, with which I have observed quite good performance on snow, ice and slush. The answer to (b), IMHO, is asking and answering the question, "what is your use case?"
If you are going to be making frequent long trips of erratic destination and duration and with little spare time for unpredictable amounts of charging, you may well be better off with a hybrid such as the Volt.
On the other hand, if the bulk of your driving is within a 100 mile radius of your home, a 85kwh Model S should do just fine. You'll charge up to 235 or 265 miles of range every night and make it home just fine. No worries about charging elsewhere during the day.
For longer trips, I have found that a little bit of planning works just fine, especially if you are traveling major highways. For instance, my wife suddenly decided to go to a regional environmental conference in Long Island over the weekend. A quick peek at Google Maps showed that she could hit the Milford, CT Supercharger along the way. Suddenly, the whole trip was easy as pie. She was able to drive 65-75 mph the whole way, charge at Milford for 15 minutes, catch the ferry over to Long Island (from Bridgeport), roam around LI, and then reverse the trip the next day.
Many (most?) of us are NOT putting in the level of planning described elsewhere on the forum.
At the end of the day, it all comes down to TIME. You'll probably never run out of juice if you are a responsible driver, just like you never run out of gas. But refill time for gas is 5 minutes, while refill time for Model S ranges from a few minutes (Supercharger, partial charge) to an hour (Supercharger, full charge of an empty battery) to a few hours or overnight (40A, partial or wholly empty battery) to two days (120V/15A circuit, empty battery).
After 10,000 miles of local, intrastate and inter-state driving, I am very happy with my Model S. I last visited a gas station on August 7, 2013. I have used public as well as private chargers, Superchargers and once -- only ONCE! -- found myself in "the wilds" looking to accumulate some extra charge as a buffer before returning home. A nearby RV park solved that problem for me.
So... what's your use case?
Alan
P.S. My other car is a 2013 Prius v wagon. We've had a 2004 Prius and a 2010 Prius as well. They have been great cars. But after living with Model S, I confess that I just HATE getting back into a Prius.
27 hours for a bit over 650 miles, so technically I'm three hours over a day.
There are 14 hours of charging in total, but the 150 mile legs don't take 6-8 hours more like 4-5. and one leg is where I sleep. It's just not that big a deal. Speeds vary but up to 80 mph when conditions are just right.
The only thing that bad weather would do would increase the charging times as there is plenty of range padding. In good weather it's pretty easy to make 25 miles over the rated range for every 100 miles travelled. (What this means is that you remember what you charged to, then add the distance since last charge to the miles remaining and the total will either be over or under what you charged to.)
Jerry,
Fair enough... Although my failure was in defining "Day" as I wasn't envisioning a 24 hour period but rather "the part of the day when people are usually most active and when most businesses are open" (merriam-webster, 3rd definition). My bad, good communication requires making sure everyone is understanding the same thing. And I know, 15 - 17 hours is stretching that definition - and yes, that *day* trip is something I did in my ICE and with the new SC plan to do with my S.
Fair enough... Although my failure was in defining "Day" as I wasn't envisioning a 24 hour period but rather "the part of the day when people are usually most active and when most businesses are open" (merriam-webster, 3rd definition). My bad, good communication requires making sure everyone is understanding the same thing. And I know, 15 - 17 hours is stretching that definition - and yes, that *day* trip is something I did in my ICE and with the new SC plan to do with my S.
physicsfita
Member
I drive about 40,000 mi/yr -- about 30,000 mi is due to my 120-mile round-trip commute (thank God I can do some of my work at home!). About 5000 mi is from doing a couple of round trips from MI to FL (600-700 mi/day), and the rest is drives all over MI, trips to ON, and usually one other really long trip. I hope to drive out to OR and WA this year, returning by the Trans-Canadian highway. (This will check off all the lower 48, and only leave me with a couple more provinces on my "life list"). I also enjoy going to the Upper Penisula, which is mostly devoid of Interstates.
The Model S is out of reach on my salary, but a higher-range Model E could just be doable from fuel and maintenance savings if the price target doesn't go up. From what I can tell from the range calculator, it seems like the 200-mile base model would be dodgy for my commute since I wouldn't hold my breath about workplace charging options happening any time soon, although I am trying to change that. Since I would be at 400,000 mi in 2017, I suspect that I will have to get a new vehicle by then, so if the release date slips from 2017 (which seems likely, given the history of the Roadster, the S and the X), I'll probably end up with a Volt anyway just due to timing. Hopefully, the E will be an option to consider at that point, as I decided a while back that I should get the greenest car that fits my needs that I can afford.
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