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Range/efficiency on P3D- less than anticipated

Discussion in 'Model 3: Battery & Charging' started by dc121gw, Nov 19, 2019.

  1. dc121gw

    dc121gw Member

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    I've had a P3D- for two weeks. Love the car, but I'm running about 330 kWh/mile over the first 300 miles. It's mostly congested city driving, with some highway speed (65mph) driving at night.

    I traded in a M3 MR where my usage was 253 kWh/mile over the lifetime of the car (7000 miles) in similar driving conditions.

    I know that the P3D- is heavier and not as efficient as the MR, but my estimated range on the P3D- is about the same or a little less than the MR, despite having a larger battery.

    What kind of efficiency numbers are other P3D- drivers seeing?
     
  2. hocr

    hocr Member

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    Average 299 with 19". Stop and go traffic I have seen 270ish
     
  3. jjrandorin

    jjrandorin Another BMW convert

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    FWIW I have a Model 3P with performance pack (so 20s and brakes), and my lifetime average is 268, Saying that, when I picked up the car in december of 2018, from december to about may my average was somewhere around 310, on the exact same roads, doing the exact same commute to work and back.

    This is even in southern california where we dont have a "real" winter as many east of us do. Rain REALLY REALLY kills range for example. So does "colder" weather, even if you dont think its "that cold".

    My commute to work and back (which is like 95% of my miles as we drive my wifes car on the weekends) is about 40 miles each way, or 80 real miles total. During the winter, my commute took between 100 "rated miles" and 120 "rated miles". Starting near may or so, it took closer to 85-90 "rated miles" and during the summer, it took basically 80-81 "rated miles".

    Since Atlanta is colder the southern california, I would say that your usage looks 100% normal to me, and will continue to be that average number until april / may.
     
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  4. StealthP3D

    StealthP3D Well-Known Member

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    My lifetime average over 10,000 miles is 262 Wh/mile and I drive it pretty hard but my driving style naturally tends to be a bit more efficient than most because I have good anticipation of upcoming traffic situations. That means I don't do a lot of unnecessary braking (whether regen or friction) because I ease off the throttle well in advance of a slowdown ahead.

    In September I took a 1300 mile trip to Montana and found a lot of deserted rural highways where I was traveling at higher speeds (over 90) for long periods of time. One morning I hit the road a little before first light and found I-90 with unlimited visibility and as close to zero traffic as it gets. As the sun lit up the open road I stepped it up to 110 to 125 during long, deserted sections through Eastern Washington only easing off as I saw another vehicle on the horizon. I would roll by with about 5-10 mph on them and when I got about 100 yards ahead I would roll back on the throttle and cruise at high speed again until I found another vehicle in another 5 or 10 miles where I would repeat. I'm sure more than one driver was scratching their head wondering how that little white car that appeared to be driving just slightly faster than they, could become just a spec on the horizon so quickly. My efficiency for the 1300 mile trip was 267 Wh/mi. which really surprised me as I had never done so much high-speed cruising and thought that would push it over 300 Wh/mi. I think this is explained by my lack of regen braking and mild weather conditions with no wind, and no heater use. When I would slow down from higher speeds I would not take my foot completely off the throttle but gradually dial it back letting the air resistance do all the braking.

    If you are in a lot of stop/go and variable speed traffic just drive more smoothly and don't accelerate to speeds that will require immediate braking. Also, do you have extra weight in the car? I like to travel light because it takes a *lot* less energy to change speeds if I don't have a bunch of extra weight in the trunk or frunk. Also, with the colder weather of winter, please check your tire pressure and adjust as necessary. In winter driving the tires will not get as much natural pressure rise from driving because the tires will not build as much heat. This means you want about 2 psi higher cold psi than during warmer summer weather. I've been running the 18" Michelin MXM4's with 46 psi cold. I had 45 psi cold for my Montana trip. These pressures give good corner grip and braking, good pothole resistance and a smooth, quiet ride.

    Also, especially if you do a lot of city driving, do *not* use "Creep" mode! That will reduce efficiency. Of course, use "Standard" regen mode, not "Low".
     
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  5. ewoodrick

    ewoodrick Well-Known Member

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    In two weeks of driving a P3D, there's no way that you are going to not be pushing the car a little bit.
    Atlanta has been pretty cold, so that's going to drop range by about 30%.
    Don't think about comparing range on short trips. Drive somewhere where you can actually stretch the car a little bit, like visit the aquarium in Chattanooga and then see what you numbers look like.
     
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  6. dc121gw

    dc121gw Member

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    Thanks for the replies. Just some more data, local weather in Atlanta this month is typical November weather for this area, 40s and 50s with a couple of days in the 30s and a couple in the 60s. So not necessarily "cold", but cooler than in summer when I put most of the miles on the MR.

    I have the standard 18" aeros that come with the P3D-. I admit I have not checked my tire pressures since delivery, but will verify they are at the recommended 45 psi when I get a chance. I use the "Hold" mode.

    I will be doing 400 mile round trip at Thanksgiving so I will be interested in how the highway efficiency goes.
     
  7. jjrandorin

    jjrandorin Another BMW convert

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    If its cold, and or wet during any part of that trip, you can basically throw the "efficiency" results out the window.
     
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  8. Gondi63

    Gondi63 Member

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    At 5,460 lifetime miles, I'm at 303 wh/mi. I spend a LOT of those miles cruising at 90mph on the highway.

    Florida, so I'm not dealing with any temp issues or needing to run the heat.

    Are you on standard regen?
     
  9. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Efficiency Obsessed Member

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    #9 AlanSubie4Life, Nov 19, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
    Your efficiency with the P3D Stealth will never be as good as it was with your MR due to the extra motor you have to spin, associated axles, etc. I think you'll find that it probably is less efficient and has less range around town than your MR did (or at least is very comparable).

    However, on the highway, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. When traveling 80mph, aero dominates and there won't be as much hit due to the drivetrain efficiency difference. So overall you'll likely have a bit more range than you had with your MR at those speeds. Might still be close.

    But in any case, just stop every couple hundred miles and Supercharge/recharge. That's about the most you can expect between stops at freeway speeds (unless you have significant downhill).

    Of course, the cooler weather and heat use is probably also affecting the numbers you are seeing. I'd expect in general about a 40-50Wh/mi difference between the MR and LR AWD, under the same conditions, but the exact difference depends on speed of travel, etc.

    I have a P3D(+)/3P(+) and my lifetime average is around 285Wh/mi.
     
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  10. inikkor

    inikkor Member

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    I'm averaging 245wh/mi with my M3P- in cold Boston weather. 19" at 42 psi. Hold mode. Not using much heating, mostly heated seats.
    I would start by check your tire pressure.

    Tesla claims are spot on if not on the conservative side.
     
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  11. dc121gw

    dc121gw Member

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    Updating my thread... I had the opportunity to take a 400 mile road trip this week. The main differences between this trip and my regular daily driving are:
    • Primarily highway driving at speed limit +5 (so 65-75 mph)
    • Unusually warm temps (55-70F)
    • I increased tire pressure from the factory-delivered 42-43 psi to 45 psi
    My average for the whole trip was 253 Wh/m which is much more reasonable than my city driving earlier. This gives a ballpark range of 296 mi which is close to the advertised 310.
     
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  12. ahyeps

    ahyeps Member

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    I'm interested to see more data from other P3D-

    Today in about 49F weather we were avg 310Wh/m at about 76mph avg ...

    Only 650miles on car
     
  13. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Efficiency Obsessed Member

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    That’s really good. Gives you a range of at least 230 miles!
     
  14. ahyeps

    ahyeps Member

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    Quite a bit from the rated and a bit lower than most of the other cases here
     
  15. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Efficiency Obsessed Member

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    #15 AlanSubie4Life, Nov 29, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
    But with the average speed and the temperature assuming you were using cabin heat it seems good. And you did not even mention what your net elevation gain (or loss in this case possibly) was. Which is super important for a one-off report like this.

    230Wh/mi is where you will get 1 for 1 rolloff of the rates miles.

    The highway rating is for an average speed of 45mph or something like that. Max speed is higher in the cycle but it has slow sections too.

    In any case you’ll be able to travel for nearly three hours at those speeds which seems like plenty.
     
  16. jjrandorin

    jjrandorin Another BMW convert

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    If you had been "speed limit -5" instead of "speed limit +5" you likely would have hit the advertised range.
    Was it raining? And... "76 mph" uses a LOT (more energy than 65 MPH. Its not linear. the difference between energy use at 65mph and 75mph is large.. way more than most people would think. Of course, on California freeways, I am not telling you to drive 65MPH. I am saying that unless you drive 65MPH or slower you wont get anywhere near rated range (like no where near it), and if its raining or the ground is wet, expect to use even more than normal due to the wet road, even if you dont use the heater.
     
  17. KenC

    KenC Active Member

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    You can't judge your efficiency just by a moment in time, since wind is a huge factor. If you just punch in some basic data into ABRP, like car, speed, temp, and adjust only the wind by 5mph, you can go from 296Wh/mile to 321Wh/mile. That's only a 5mph headwind, causing that difference in efficiency.
     
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  18. mchas

    mchas Member

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    Just took a 130 mile trip in my P3D- (with 19”s) and got 241 average for the trip. This is in SoCal, outside temps around 60, no AC or heater, with some fairly significant elevation changes up and then back down. Average speed probably 70mph (some traffic with slower speeds, and some open stretches with 75mph speeds). Autopilot on almost the entire time. Pleasantly surprised.
     
  19. ZOMGVTEK

    ZOMGVTEK Member

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    [​IMG]

    Can’t wait for lots of snow and cold weather.
     
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  20. AlanSubie4Life

    AlanSubie4Life Efficiency Obsessed Member

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    Even modest traffic helps a lot to eke out a bit more efficiency. Following distance 6-7 is plenty close to have an effect.

    Was this a round trip?
     

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