Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

[Candleflame]

Hey all,

I just wanted to post my experience as a data point and get the group's thoughts on my theory. I have a 2020 model 3 AWD. My charging set up is a HPWC and I charge daily or every other day, with only 1 supercharging session ever. My daily commute used to be fairy short, about 20 miles round trip, and so the battery was typically between 50%-80% all of the time We took my wife's Y for long trips so the 3 has never really seen a long trip. The rated miles started around 310, and I honestly don't recall if I ever saw higher than that after the software bump. However, I did see a fairly sharp decline around 7000 miles on the odometer to a nadir of about 275 miles at 100% (projected at a charge of about 80%) I was mildly concerned about this but due to the car's use as above it wouldn't really affect me at all. Lately my daily commute has grown significantly to 108 miles round trip daily. With this, Ive seen a steady increase in my rated miles up to 305 miles today at 100% (projected).

The other interesting point is my efficiency used to be absurdly high (115-125%) that by stats put me better than 97% of users. With the increase in my rated miles, my efficiency has dropped to around 100%.

TLDR
1. With a large increase in my daily commute my rated miles have increased from 279--->305
2. Efficiency has dropped over this time as well


My question is could a very high efficiency be a clue that there are more rated miles than the battery meter is showing? I realize there are numerous factors affecting efficiency (driving style and weather) but it may provide an interesting data point for those who have low rated miles and are curious if it is a true reading or not

P.S. The weather did get much warmer from when the rated miles were 278 until 305 but I did not see the significant increase until my commute lengthened.

efficiency is just related to your consumption. if it gets warmer you use less heating which is terribly inefficient. im sometimes surprised how much power it costs to heat the cabin when it gets to like 18C here lol.

The big chunk of miles going at 7000 miles is normal. I am sure the degradation of the 3 is partially pre-programmed in. You should get another chunk go at like 15000 miles.

 

[jjrandorin]

I am sure the degradation of the 3 is partially pre-programmed in. You should get another chunk go at like 15000 miles.

Not on my model 3, there hasnt been. My model 3P, which has 26k miles on it, shows 294 Miles on a full charge. Keep in mind that the model 3P with 20 inch wheels was originally rated at 310 miles, but ended up being rated at 299 miles with the 20 inch wheels. There was no "drop at 7k" or at 15 or anything other than a mile here, a mile there.

My car has been set to charge to 90% basically since I got it, with the exception that, during covid, when it charges to 90% and I know i am not going anywhere for a few days, I let it charge to 90%, then move the slider down some, just so that it doesnt drop a couple percent then recharge. I let it drop down to about 80% if I dont go anywhere, then charge it back to 90%.

Just as you are sure that "the degredation of the model 3 is partially pre progammed in", I am sure that it is not much more than a battery lottery and most of the charging Regimens that people use are fairly useless, other than not charging to 100% all the time, or not leaving the car at a very low charge. Other than that, I personally feel that everything else doesnt make much difference on an individual car basis.


If you were correct on this being pre programmed in, my car would not be somehow "different" than many other vehicles reported here.

 

[Candleflame]

Not on my model 3, there hasnt been. My model 3P, which has 26k miles on it, shows 294 Miles on a full charge. Keep in mind that the model 3P with 20 inch wheels was originally rated at 310 miles, but ended up being rated at 299 miles with the 20 inch wheels. There was no "drop at 7k" or at 15 or anything other than a mile here, a mile there.

My car has been set to charge to 90% basically since I got it, with the exception that, during covid, when it charges to 90% and I know i am not going anywhere for a few days, I let it charge to 90%, then move the slider down some, just so that it doesnt drop a couple percent then recharge. I let it drop down to about 80% if I dont go anywhere, then charge it back to 90%.

Just as you are sure that "the degredation of the model 3 is partially pre progammed in", I am sure that it is not much more than a battery lottery and most of the charging Regimens that people use are fairly useless, other than not charging to 100% all the time, or not leaving the car at a very low charge. Other than that, I personally feel that everything else doesnt make much difference on an individual car basis.


If you were correct on this being pre programmed in, my car would not be somehow "different" than many other vehicles reported here.

this just isnt factual. you cant use your own battery degradation just because your 3 for some reason behaves different. the average for 26k miles is around 462km of rated range.

 

[jjrandorin]

this just isnt factual. you cant use your own battery degradation just because your 3 for some reason behaves different. the average for 26k miles is around 462km of rated range.

You realize by saying "this isnt just factual" you are basically telling me I am lying (and everyone else who says "mine is fine" (of which I am nowhere near the only person)?

Also, if your "its pre progammed in" theory was correct, you are saying that somehow my car does not have that programming, right?

 

[RedWhite19]

I’m looking for some help. I don’t know a great deal about the battery aspect but since summertime has kicked off, I’ve noticed my battery going down a lot faster. Today, I began with 170 miles or so, and I drove about 5 miles and it went down to around 162, where I used the AC. But over the last couple hours I’ve noticed the battery just draining for no reason. The AC is off and when I walk by the car I can hear the car, which it sounds like it is cooling down or something. I have two pictures below, and I haven’t driven the car, it just have been sitting as parked. At 4:57, the car was at 151, which it dropped from 160ish range. Now, a couple hours later, I am down to 144. I understand that the cold weather impacts the battery, but does the triple digit weather does so as well?
Note, this is a 2020 SR+ that I ordered in august and picked up in late September. The car also has 3,600 miles. It is also strange, that my SR MY gives me zero issues with the battery.

Final note, over the last month or so, I’ve noticed that I can only max out to 229 miles of range, currently it shows only 225. When I do charge the car, I go around 80-85%. Again, my SR MY gives me the full 244 or so.

 

[Fierily]

I’m looking for some help. I don’t know a great deal about the battery aspect but since summertime has kicked off, I’ve noticed my battery going down a lot faster. Today, I began with 170 miles or so, and I drove about 5 miles and it went down to around 162, where I used the AC. But over the last couple hours I’ve noticed the battery just draining for no reason. The AC is off and when I walk by the car I can hear the car, which it sounds like it is cooling down or something. I have two pictures below, and I haven’t driven the car, it just have been sitting as parked. At 4:57, the car was at 151, which it dropped from 160ish range. Now, a couple hours later, I am down to 144. I understand that the cold weather impacts the battery, but does the triple digit weather does so as well?
Note, this is a 2020 SR+ that I ordered in august and picked up in late September. The car also has 3,600 miles. It is also strange, that my SR MY gives me zero issues with the battery.

Final note, over the last month or so, I’ve noticed that I can only max out to 229 miles of range, currently it shows only 225. When I do charge the car, I go around 80-85%. Again, my SR MY gives me the full 244 or so.

View attachment 675408

View attachment 675409

Is your cabin overheat protection turned on? If your car is parked outside in the current LA weather, the AC is probably running a lot.

 

[RedWhite19]

Is your cabin overheat protection turned on? If your car is parked outside in the current LA weather, the AC is probably running a lot.

Ah-ha. Indeed, that is in fact the issue. Thank you.

Now, I just have to see why my range went from the high 240s when I first got the car to being in the 220s in less than a year. I don’t drive it that often nor do I drive that frequently on the freeway. Guessing that is the problem.

But thanks again. I just have to get a shade cover for the front windshield.

 

[Carson]

Picked this up new 10 days ago. Drove 215 miles today and used 300 miles worth of battery. Normal driving / acceleration. Bad battery or false advertising?

 

[GtiMart]

none of the above. Advertised range is based on EPA or WLTP tests. IF you replicate those conditions, you should get the same values. Clearly you did not drive in the exact same conditions. You might have gone uphill, faster than 55mph, had headwind etc...

 

[Carson]

Had this new car 10 days. Drive 215 miles today. Used 300 miles of charge. Normal driving / acceleration. Bad battery or false advertising?

 

[hcdavis3]

Picked this up new 10 days ago. Drove 215 miles today and used 300 miles worth of battery. Normal driving / acceleration. Bad battery or false advertising?

Too many variables to consider here. Ambient temps, driving speed, hills etc. Do a few more drives and charges and see what happens then

 

[Carson]

none of the above. Advertised range is based on EPA or WLTP tests. IF you replicate those conditions, you should get the same values. Clearly you did not drive in the exact same conditions. You might have gone uphill, faster than 55mph, had headwind etc...

Sure - but 28%? That’s a pretty large difference to attribute to a head wind…

 

[jjrandorin]

Picked this up new 10 days ago. Drove 215 miles today and used 300 miles worth of battery. Normal driving / acceleration. Bad battery or false advertising?

Unless "normal driving" includes driving at the EPA test speed (which I think is 45 MPH), on completely flat terrain then this is fully expected. "none of the above".

 

[jmaddr]

I’d call it misleading, not false.

The EPA has very strict definition of how cats are tested for mileage, all based on ICE cars which do better at highway speeds than city. Electric cars are the opposite, better distance at city speeds than highway. Tesla has optimized their distance based on the EPA tests which average around 48 mph. Drive around that speed, and you’ll get the advertised distance. Anything greater, short trips, etc outside of the EPA tests and you'll get far worse.

 

[Jejunjm]

Threads like this are funny. Do people do any research when they buy a fifty thousand dollar car?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Had this new car 10 days. Drive 215 miles today. Used 300 miles of charge. Normal driving / acceleration. Bad battery or false advertising?

I suspect this thread will be moved, but do examine the various stickies.

Your car has about a 77.8-79kWh battery (assuming a 353-mile range 2021 Model 3 here - which perhaps has an 82kWh battery but that is TBD and so far we haven't seen data showing more than 80kWh).

Anyway, that's all that matters - your available energy and your efficiency. Assuming you have 79kWh (it's a slightly different formula if you're below the degradation threshold of 77.8kWh), and assuming you did that 215 miles in a single run, your efficiency was:

0.955*79kWh/353rmi = 214Wh/rmi

300rmi*214Wh/rmi / 215mi = 299Wh/mi

On the trip meter, that will display as 0.99* 299Wh/mi = 296Wh/mi

So that's my guess for what you got. It's very normal to get that if you're traveling 80mph on the freeway with AC going, etc.

If you want to get mile-for-mile rolloff, you need to do about 211Wh/mi right now. Later on in your car's life it will be 0.955*77.8/353rmi*0.99 = 208Wh/rmi so that will be your target on the in-car trip meter to get "parity." (And that will be the value it will always be from the moment your car shows capacity loss.)

 

[RayK]

Had this new car 10 days. Drive 215 miles today. Used 300 miles of charge. Normal driving / acceleration. Bad battery or false advertising?

I'll assume you're near Birmingham, AL where I see it's 80F. Were you driving on the interstate at 70MPH+ with the A/C on? That can sap your range.

I’d call it misleading, not false.

The EPA has very strict definition of how cats are tested for mileage, all based on ICE cars which do better at highway speeds than city.

I have three cats (cars, too). I did not know that the EPA has a testing regime for seeing how many miles you can get out of a cat. Mostly the one we take out for "walks" is dragged from place to place (he's a tripod).

Corrected: regimen to regime.

 

[tstolze]

Change your display for your battery to percent...

 

[Jejunjm]

I suspect this thread will be moved, but do examine the various stickies.

Your car has about a 77.8-79kWh battery (assuming a 353-mile range 2021 Model 3 here - which perhaps has an 82kWh battery but that is TBD and so far we haven't seen data showing more than 80kWh).

Anyway, that's all that matters - your available energy and your efficiency. Assuming you have 79kWh (it's a slightly different formula if you're below the degradation threshold of 77.8kWh), and assuming you did that 215 miles in a single run, your efficiency was:

0.955*79kWh/353rmi = 214Wh/rmi

300rmi*214Wh/rmi / 215mi = 299Wh/mi

On the trip meter, that will display as 0.99* 299Wh/mi = 296Wh/mi

So that's my guess for what you got. It's very normal to get that if you're traveling 80mph on the freeway with AC going, etc.

If you want to get mile-for-mile rolloff, you need to do about 211Wh/mi right now. Later on in your car's life it will be 0.955*77.8/353rmi*0.99 = 208Wh/rmi so that will be your target on the in-car trip meter to get "parity." (And that will be the value it will always be from the moment your car shows capacity loss.)

You don't think I confirmed that (at least my 2021 lr vehicle) has an 82 kwh battery?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

You don't think I confirmed that (at least my 2021 lr vehicle) has an 82 kwh battery?

For sure some 2021 AWD non-P vehicles at least have that battery. But there is the additional question about what the maximum available energy is set to on those packs (which is relevant here and I have not seen a lot of info on). It seems like it is around 80kWh so far.

That is 1.5kWh lower than the Performance or so, and additionally the degradation threshold is certainly set differently for now (~77.8kWh vs ~80.6kWh).

Obviously that could change and then these calculations will need to be adjusted.