Raven Performance in Europe - only hits 140 kW for few minutes, 92 kW for the rest

[PilotChris]

I'd love some input from the hive mind as to whether this is normal:

My Raven Performance X (delivered Dec 2020 in Germany) doesn't charge as fast as my previous X (also a Performance X in Germany). I usually roll in to a supercharger with 5-10% SOC, and observe:

• Pretty fast ramp-up to 140 kW (v3 SuC) or 146 kW (v2 SuC).
• By around 30 kW, this ramps down to 92 kW.
• Flat at 92 kW until about 65-70%, at which point it starts ramping down (as you'd expect) through 100%.

I drew the following curve from memory based on observation:

This happens 100% of the time. I NEVER manage to stay at or close to 140 kW past 30%. I'm starting to wonder if there's something wrong with my new X, because:

• I recall my previous X (also a Raven in Germany) charging at 140 kW until closer to 50-55% SOC.
• This post seems to confirm that dropping to 92% after 30% isn't expected.
• Also, if I unplug and restart charging after the rate dropped to 92 kW, it immediately pops back up to 110-115 kW, but then quickly ramps back down to 92 kW. This almost looks as if there's a thermal problem (as if unplugging and temporarily stopping charging allows something to cool off, which then quickly overheats again).

For what it's worth, I never hear my X cooling when plugged into a supercharger. My previous X was incredibly noisy when charging. This also seems suspicious.

Any thoughts? What can I tell the service center? Are they likely to be willing to investigate if I complain that charging drops to 92 kW at 30%?

So many thanks for any advice!

 

[_jmk]

My sept 2020 X holds 142kW (ccs adapter) or 146kW (v2 suc) until 45% and tapers to 100kW at 67%. At 80% it’s still at 78kW or so.

It IS pretty sensitive about the temps though. It really has to be warm enough.

 

[Harvey Danger]

I'd love some input from the hive mind as to whether this is normal...

Review this:

Tesla Supercharging - Summer 2019 Update

(Edit 2019-08-16: Added Model 3 SR+) (Edit 2019-09-06: Added BT70) Since we last wrote about Tesla supercharging, Tesla vehicles have received quite a few software updates (as usual). Some seem to have modified the charge curves of some car models, and especially the classic Model S 85 owners hav...

forum.abetterrouteplanner.com

That was a pretty accurate graph you created from memory!

 

[_jmk]

IMHO for a car this new it’s not normal. Mine is a G pack.

 

[PilotChris]

Mine is an H pack. It really does seem slow -- slower, even, than my previous Raven Model X (which was lost in a serious accident). Thanks, this was the push I needed to schedule a service appointment.

 

[Richbot]

If it never gets above 150 even on a V3 I bet there’s an issue. Mine (also H pack, long range plus) will pop up above 200 for about 5 min below 30% SoC. It also becomes heat limited and drops down below 100kw at some point but that’s usually after 50% and it’s definitely able to hold north of 125 for a good 15 minutes or so.

Either way it’s pretty clearly the car is heat limiting somewhere and it’s not usually a supercharger problem. Which sorta makes sense if the big difference between the Raven and new refresh cars seems to be cooling and the new ones can hold 200+kw for a looooong time

 

[_jmk]

If it never gets above 150 even on a V3 I bet there’s an issue. Mine (also H pack, long range plus) will pop up above 200 for about 5 min below 30% SoC. It also becomes heat limited and drops down below 100kw at some point but that’s usually after 50% and it’s definitely able to hold north of 125 for a good 15 minutes or so.

Either way it’s pretty clearly the car is heat limiting somewhere and it’s not usually a supercharger problem. Which sorta makes sense if the big difference between the Raven and new refresh cars seems to be cooling and the new ones can hold 200+kw for a looooong time

The CCS adapter in the EU maxes out at 142kW and never delivers more. It's the only way to charge from v3 superchargers. Tesla hacked this pretty bad, European S/X users were sold cars with 250kW charging capability but it was never delivered.

 

[PilotChris]

I just realized I could pull historical data from Teslascope, so here's an actual chart (based on real, recorded data) showing how my Supercharging sessions look. This is literally the best case for this vehicle. I'm quite positive my previous Raven Model X Performance managed to charge faster than this:

Is this something service centers take seriously? Or do they tend to ignore complaints of the form "my car doesn't charge fast enough?"

 

[_jmk]

Looks horrible indeed. They will take it seriously if you can prove the battery was properly warm prior to the charging session. Note that it needs 30-40 deg.C temperature which is not easy target these days even with the preconditioning as the preconditioning algorithm really sucks. You need some tools to verify the battery temperature.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Seems like a cooling issue.

 

[PilotChris]

I had Tesla mobile service out today. I felt bad for the guy as he was just the messenger, but evidently they looked at my vehicle logs and sent him to "tell me everything is normal and no service is required." I had come armed with a ream of charge curves (collected a lot more data this weekend), all showing a massive drop from ~145 kW to 92 kW around 30-35%.

The kicker? He said "it's normal" and that the "new software slowed it down to protect the battery pack."

Can anybody with a 2020 Performance with an H pack in Germany and recent software send me some curves to show to Tesla in comparison to the ones below?

Interestingly, on my trip yesterday (1100 km from Italy to Germany) I noticed the battery fan spun up loudly *after* Supercharging (literally as I pulled out of the stall -- so loud I could hear it inside the car). One of the big differences between my current and previous X was that the previous X would run the battery fan loudly during charging, but my current X *never* makes an audible cooling sound while charging. As an experiment, I drove around for a few minutes with the cooling fan on and returned to the charger.... and the charge rate popped back up to 110 kW at 65%! This seems to confirm that battery cooling is the issue.

The fun part is that I'm also having a problem with my MCU crashing frequently and severely while driving (I lose instrument cluster, wipers, turn signals, etc) -- so often than I managed to catch it on video twice recently. When I showed the mobile tech that video, he seemed to get worried and admitted that the MCU could be a part of the charging problem. He asked me to send him the videos, and he'll make a Service Center appointment for them to properly inspect it. He also admitted that while the vehicle showed no *errors* while charging, that if it was insufficient cooling they wouldn't be able to see it.

Overall, I'm pretty annoyed at how dismissive they are over my concerns. Let's see if this service center visit helps.

For the record, my 4 SuperCharging curves yesterday:

 

[Richbot]

Totally missed this was in europe...yeah

 

[_jmk]

Heh new software slowed it down - but somehow people with the same software version around the globe get better speed? Heh Tesla

 

[Harvey Danger]

Seems like a cooling issue.

This

 

[Richbot]

So, out of curiosity, I intentionally didn't charge before a short work trip to get the battery low and then took mine to a new V3 that just opened nearby (I'm in the US). My car has the H battery. It was about 65 degrees f outside, and I never got the preconditioning message despite navigating to the supercharger.

Started at 14%. ramped to 195-202kw for about 10%. Ramped down gradually from 200 after adding 5kwh, was below 150 by 2ventually settled at 92-94kw at 30% or so, when it started ramping back up very slowly again. I cut it off at 50% when it was aback up to 97kwh.

I think the initial fast-charge hit must heat something up that needs to be protected because on a V2 The car will (or did, haven't used a V2 in a while) hold well above 100kw past 50%.

My fans and compressor also never kicked on, and interior HVAC was off. In the past, it's always run the cooling system. Hmm.

You might be getting the "V3 charge curve" without the benefit of the spike up to 200kw for a few minutes because they nerfed the CCS cars down to 140-ish max?

Another oddity: I charged the car to 50%, drove 17 miles home, parked it at 46%, and when I came back out to the car an hour later, it was at 49% without plugging it in. Must have had some electricity still stuck in the fill pipe lol

 

[PilotChris]

Thanks for the data point, Richtbot. Unless our cars have a similar mechanical problem, this would appear to support that 92 kW after ~30% is somehow by design. But I'm not sure why others are getting so much better.

I just updated from 2021.24.4 to 2021.36.5 so will run it down to 5% and head back to the nearest Supercharger to see if anything's changed, maybe this weekend.

In the meantime, my maybe-but-probably-not MCU troubles have magnified. I had a totally dead car two days ago (neither screen would turn on; had to leave and come back 30 minutes later), and I'm getting numerous autopilot errors now. But the automotive engineer in me says that these really shouldn't be related, based on system partitioning best practices.

 

[ElectricIAC]

So, out of curiosity, I intentionally didn't charge before a short work trip to get the battery low and then took mine to a new V3 that just opened nearby (I'm in the US). My car has the H battery. It was about 65 degrees f outside, and I never got the preconditioning message despite navigating to the supercharger.

Started at 14%. ramped to 195-202kw for about 10%. Ramped down gradually from 200 after adding 5kwh, was below 150 by 2ventually settled at 92-94kw at 30% or so, when it started ramping back up very slowly again. I cut it off at 50% when it was aback up to 97kwh.

I think the initial fast-charge hit must heat something up that needs to be protected because on a V2 The car will (or did, haven't used a V2 in a while) hold well above 100kw past 50%.

My fans and compressor also never kicked on, and interior HVAC was off. In the past, it's always run the cooling system. Hmm.

You might be getting the "V3 charge curve" without the benefit of the spike up to 200kw for a few minutes because they nerfed the CCS cars down to 140-ish max?

Another oddity: I charged the car to 50%, drove 17 miles home, parked it at 46%, and when I came back out to the car an hour later, it was at 49% without plugging it in. Must have had some electricity still stuck in the fill pipe lol

Noticed rates suck on the latest software. I would consistently max out in the mid 140’s briefly on a V3 or high 120’s on V2 pre-2021.32 on a (BTX5) Raven.

Now just seeing mid 100’s max and taper begins in low 30%s with similar behaviour mentioned (fans not blaring during supercharging but go full bore afterward)

 

[_jmk]

Amazing if this is yet another downgrade. I was somewhat surprised that my X has been charging on the _exact_ same curve (see above) as the PLAID S. However, I haven't fast charged for over a month now so you never know if they indeed nerfed all cars again to make sure the plaid looks better.... ?

That being said, I've also noticed the battery balancing being entirely wrong lately. Sometimes this chooses not to charge past 95%.

 

[Richbot]

L

Noticed rates suck on the latest software. I would consistently max out in the mid 140’s briefly on a V3 or high 120’s on V2 pre-2021.32 on a (BTX5) Raven.

Now just seeing mid 100’s max and taper begins in low 30%s with similar behaviour mentioned (fans not blaring during supercharging but go full bore afterward)

Considering they pushed out cold weather charging improvements I wonder if they forgot to flip a bit somewhere and cooling just isn’t switching on?

 

[ElectricIAC]

Amazing if this is yet another downgrade. I was somewhat surprised that my X has been charging on the _exact_ same curve (see above) as the PLAID S. However, I haven't fast charged for over a month now so you never know if they indeed nerfed all cars again to make sure the plaid looks better.... ?

That being said, I've also noticed the battery balancing being entirely wrong lately. Sometimes this chooses not to charge past 95%.

Maybe a push and a shove to get us “cheapskates” off free supercharging, lol.

NEVER!