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Real life Winter Model 3 efficiency thread

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This is the reality of bad weather... -4 C, snow on roads. Drive to work....

347 Wh/km or 555 Wh/mile over 14.4 km.

I can't believe the amount of snow in November, sometimes we don't even get this until after Christmas.

I will lose 100km of range going approx 30km. This is why cold climates need all three range they can get. So who has done worse in November ?

LR RWD
 

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Wow, 555 Wh/mile is a LOT. But then, 14.4km is a pretty short drive...and efficiency numbers on short drives are worse than longer ones because of start-up costs (getting battery to temperature, warming up cabin, etc). If you want to see really bad numbers, just back to the end of your driveway, sit there for 5 minutes with the car on, and then put the car back in the garage. (I am not complaining about your post or numbers; just clarifying for those unfamiliar). This is why "winter EV driving tips" often include preheating the car while still plugged in, and timing your charge to end right before you leave. Curious - did you do that, or are these numbers from a cold start?

Before I went electric I had a 2005 Honda Insight hybrid. I could get over 80mpg on long round trips, but mpg got as low as 40 on winter days doing a short commute to work. Stuck in bad traffic once, I got 35mpg. I eventually got a block heater, and then winter commutes were usually in the mid-50's (so I was using less gas, although of course I was using more electricity).

As for long drives (say, 150 miles or more) the worst I've seen in over a decade of EV driving was a 1/3 efficiency loss. I don't often drive in very low temperatures, but I do sometimes drive in very-near-freezing temperatures with lots of hills and heavy rain, which has a huge effect. (Try putting your car in neutral in heavy rain and see how far it coasts, vs when the roads are dry).
 
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My usual commute (35 miles one way, 90% interstate @ 80 mph) was averaging ~265 wh/mi during the warm months (April-October). I was at about 350 wh/mi this morning, but it WAS 10 F...so really, REALLY frigid. Preconditioned in garage using departure time feature. Heat set at 65F, seat heaters on "2".
Dumb question but, when you are heating up your car while charging in the a.m. does it continue to increase charge or go down somewhat? Assuming you are on a 240v...
 
I live in Cleveland, Ohio and took possession of my Model 3 LR AWD in late September 2018. For the 6 months from October through March (fall and winter) I averaged 312 wh/mile over 13,000 miles. For comparison, for the 6 months from April through September 2019 (spring / summer) I averaged around 250 wh/mile over about 13,500 miles.

So the AVERAGE impact of cold/snow/wind for me was about 25% increase in wh/mile over a 26,500 mile sample.

But as others have said I did have trips that were much worse than that. My worst was a 3-hour, 160 mile drive in 5-below-zero FAHRENHEIT with snow on the road and stiff cross-winds. I averaged almost 500 wh/mile on that trip. It was brutal.

So whenever I hear anyone say that 300 miles range "should be enough for anyone" I always roll my eyes and think to myself "they must be from somewhere warm."
 
I got my car last October and was routinely seeing 270 wh/km - 370 wh/km on my relatively short commute to and from work (up and down Avenue Road to downtown). I still remember when the weather started getting warmer and my consumption dropped incredibly.
Back in the high numbers again!
It is initially shocking how much energy is used in the winter, but that's how it is.
 
This is the reality of bad weather... -4 C, snow on roads. Drive to work....

347 Wh/km or 555 Wh/mile over 14.4 km.

I can't believe the amount of snow in November, sometimes we don't even get this until after Christmas.

I will lose 100km of range going approx 30km. This is why cold climates need all three range they can get. So who has done worse in November ?

LR RWD
A lot of that is due to your low average speed, I'm assuming tons of traffic. Heater is 3-4kw for an hour in your case. So let's say 3kw, that's going to be 3000wh/14.4km=208wh/km due to just heating. If you drove twice as fast (assuming there was less traffic) you'd get maybe 240Wh/km.

My drive this morning was 26km at -6C in 36 minutes and 240Wh/km.
 
This is the reality of bad weather... -4 C, snow on roads. Drive to work....

347 Wh/km or 555 Wh/mile over 14.4 km.

I can't believe the amount of snow in November, sometimes we don't even get this until after Christmas.

I will lose 100km of range going approx 30km. This is why cold climates need all three range they can get. So who has done worse in November ?

LR RWD
I also have a LR RWD. The same weather system hit us yesterday in Chicago. My commute to work was not that bad (yesterday was holiday) and I was driving 30 mph average with snow and ice on road. Commute back home was 70mph average on clear roads.

I averaged 350 wh/mi. Heater set to 70F. Car has winter tires. So yeah it used quite a bit more energy.
 
This is the reality of bad weather... -4 C, snow on roads. Drive to work....

347 Wh/km or 555 Wh/mile over 14.4 km.

I can't believe the amount of snow in November, sometimes we don't even get this until after Christmas.

I will lose 100km of range going approx 30km. This is why cold climates need all three range they can get. So who has done worse in November ?

LR RWD

It really depends how you drive and what you have switched on.

I drive a SR+ and changed the battery reading to percentage vs estimated range for my own sanity (because I know I'll get less than the rated range and it helps keep my sanity).

My commute is 65kms each way in to the city (avg of 1h40min on any regular day - 20% battery usage). Yesterday's -6 degrees and snow storm took 2.5 hrs to drive through and used 24% battery. My Wh/km usually hovers around 185Wh/km- 220Wh/km. (My car has a rated range of (approx) 364kms at 100%.
The only times I get up to 300+ is if I pre-heat my car/seats for a while before starting the drive.

I drive with the "Standard" drive setting, TeslaCam, Heater, heated seats, and Spotify running. I'm also running Tesla's Winter tire package (Pirelli Sottozero II).
I don't think you'll lose 100kms of range for travelling 30kms (otherwise someone like me would end up with a dead battery).

Something worth noting is that I park in a garage at home, and in an underground parking garage at work so the battery isn't super cold when I get to it.

Overall, my estimation of % usage to range is 1% = 3kms which has held true unless I'm fooling around.
 
I did my 60 mi commute this morning with 5F temps. I did get to try the scheduled departure, so had the car recently charged to 80% and heated for around 30 mins. I thought it might help with the range and I did see a lower regen penalty starting out.

I used almost double the expected range from the battery in the commute at 409 Wh/mi. Granted, the commute is mainly freeway and I was going 78 mph with the heat at 70F.

I had been charging at work to 80% and hoping to go roundtrip on that charge, but at this temps/speeds, I will have supplement at home, or slow down some and maybe charge to 90%. I'm not disappointed as I absolutely love the car. I just keep trying to add data points for range so I don't get caught someplace without charge. And I did save $10 in gas savings...

upload_2019-11-12_11-39-41.png
 
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New to the site and just picked up my Model 3 LR_AWD two days ago in time for the snow to hit upstate NY. I typically drive 120 miles a day, 60 in each direction. My first day I noticed that I used about 80 miles of range to travel the 60 miles, I did have the heat going around 68 and the heated seat on the lowest level but was shocked to see more than half my range taken up. This was around 30-40 degree weather. This morning was our first snow and 20 degree temps. I want to say it was about 100 miles of range to travel the 60 miles. I tried preheating the car about 30 minutes before I left while it was still plugged in and also had it charging at the same time to hopefully heat up the batteries. The poor car sits outside in the elements so does anyone out there have any suggestions to help it out. Also driving me nuts, I'm running really old software for just picking up the car, 2019.31.103.1.

Another hit off topic.... I do not have the Frunk hooks or the mat but it doesn't look like a redesign but just like they ran out of the clips and left the part out. The delivery specialist told me that they were causing an problem with the seal so they stopped installing them????
 
In my exoerience, city driving in winter is an easy 50 percent range loss. Hwy is a good 30%. It's just the price we have to pay for being so efficient. Even at half the range it is still 5 times more efficient

By "easy 50% range loss", are you suggesting your range loss is potentially more than 50%?

If so, you should really get your battery checked.

I drive 130kms round-trip of a mix of city and highway driving.
I start at 85% (approx 330kms) and get home at the end of the day with 40%-45% battery left on a Standard Range Plus.
Based on that, a rough estimation in our current climate is 260kms on a 85%-90% charge. If that calculation is correct, I'm about a 21% loss (quite far off your 50%).

I also don't drive very efficiently on the highway as traffic typically travels at 130km/h when the roads are clear. This is usually where I see my Wh/km start creeping up.

As stated previously, storing your car outside in the cold where your battery has to warm up, or pre-warming your cabin will effect this quite a bit to which I wouldn't consider a part of "range loss".
 
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By "easy 50% range loss", are you suggesting your range loss is potentially more than 50%?

If so, you should really get your battery checked.

I drive 130kms round-trip of a mix of city and highway driving.
I start at 85% (approx 330kms) and get home at the end of the day with 40%-45% battery left on a Standard Range Plus.
Based on that, a rough estimation in our current climate is 260kms on a 85%-90% charge. If that calculation is correct, I'm about a 21% loss (quite far off your 50%).

I also don't drive very efficiently on the highway as traffic typically travels at 130km/h when the roads are clear. This is usually where I see my Wh/km start creeping up.

As stated previously, storing your car outside in the cold where your battery has to warm up, or pre-warming your cabin will effect this quite a bit to which I wouldn't consider a part of "range loss".
Here's my teslafi data from the past year. 50% is real vs summer time.
Screen Shot 2019-11-08 at 10.18.48 AM.png


Edit: But I do not in any way try to hyper-mile.
 
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By "easy 50% range loss", are you suggesting your range loss is potentially more than 50%?

If so, you should really get your battery checked.

I drive 130kms round-trip of a mix of city and highway driving.
I start at 85% (approx 330kms) and get home at the end of the day with 40%-45% battery left on a Standard Range Plus.
Based on that, a rough estimation in our current climate is 260kms on a 85%-90% charge. If that calculation is correct, I'm about a 21% loss (quite far off your 50%).

I also don't drive very efficiently on the highway as traffic typically travels at 130km/h when the roads are clear. This is usually where I see my Wh/km start creeping up.

As stated previously, storing your car outside in the cold where your battery has to warm up, or pre-warming your cabin will effect this quite a bit to which I wouldn't consider a part of "range loss".

My car is garaged but the traffic and sitting in cold weather really drains the battery. This is 100% city. Hwy is much better in winter.
 
1 hr drive to go 14.4 km impacted efficiency on my original post. Here is my drive home today 41 min and 15.6 km driven netted me 271 Wh/km vs 347. The ride was 20 min shorter and slightly more elevation to climb. Around 45 percent loss this time . It's getting better, note I have real city driving Eg New York , Chicago, L.A.

Smaller cities and hwy driving should fare much better.
 

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