Good point but I would have expected that to be factored into the charge calculation. All depends how conservative GM's accounting dept. wants to be and/or how those negotiations are progressing.
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Really? Is no one talking about the Chevy Bolt?
- Thread starter SDBob
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Good point but I would have expected that to be factored into the charge calculation. All depends how conservative GM's accounting dept. wants to be and/or how those negotiations are progressing.
ljbad4life
Member
I would think LG would take some of that charge. If i were ford, chrysler or any other traditional car company that is building their own electric car, would I do business with a battery company that produces defective battery units and doesn't stand behind their work? I wouldn't. LG needs to salvage it's business.
RobDickinson
Active Member
While not not a fan of the Bolt, (in fairness I know nothing about the vehicle) I do know a thing or 2 about electricity. Specifically about it's failure characteristics in residential, commercial and industrial infrastructure. It's been my specialty for decades.
It doesn't take an expert to see this. The attached photo shows a Nema 14-30 cord cap. This melted device is specifically attributed to a Chevy Bolt in this article. Still no fix as GM scrambles 'around the clock' to end Chevy Bolt battery fires
This is a 30-amp, 4-wire device commonly used as a supply to charge EVs. It's the incorrect application but that's irrelevant to this discussion.
There are ZERO chances in 900,000,000 that this failure and whatever risk of fire this failure posed was the fault of GM, a Bolt, or the neighbor's cat. 0 in 18,000,000,000.
This failure has four very specific possible causes or a combination of all 4.
Not 5.
Not Maybe.
FOUR.
1. A loose wire connecting the terminal of the receptacle to that leg.
2. A loose wire connecting the terminal of the cord cap to that leg.
3. A worn out/poor connection between cord cap and receptacle.
4. An overloaded device.
My point is, as Tesla owners we've learned that the media loves to pile on with their arrogant know-it-all attitudes when a Tesla crashes, suffers a fire, or gets a damn flat tire. In this case the same ignorant/arrogant media sandwich is used to instill fear in thousands of Bolt owners without a single shred of truth. People don't want their houses burning down. Using this as an example of a failure of ANY utilization device is categorically irresponsible.
NEVER, especially these days, EVER, believe what you read in the news.
The Bolts may have their problems, but the author of this article has absolutely NO CLUE what they're writing about, all the while posing as a damn expert.
Phew... off my soap box.
It doesn't take an expert to see this. The attached photo shows a Nema 14-30 cord cap. This melted device is specifically attributed to a Chevy Bolt in this article. Still no fix as GM scrambles 'around the clock' to end Chevy Bolt battery fires
This is a 30-amp, 4-wire device commonly used as a supply to charge EVs. It's the incorrect application but that's irrelevant to this discussion.
There are ZERO chances in 900,000,000 that this failure and whatever risk of fire this failure posed was the fault of GM, a Bolt, or the neighbor's cat. 0 in 18,000,000,000.
This failure has four very specific possible causes or a combination of all 4.
Not 5.
Not Maybe.
FOUR.
1. A loose wire connecting the terminal of the receptacle to that leg.
2. A loose wire connecting the terminal of the cord cap to that leg.
3. A worn out/poor connection between cord cap and receptacle.
4. An overloaded device.
My point is, as Tesla owners we've learned that the media loves to pile on with their arrogant know-it-all attitudes when a Tesla crashes, suffers a fire, or gets a damn flat tire. In this case the same ignorant/arrogant media sandwich is used to instill fear in thousands of Bolt owners without a single shred of truth. People don't want their houses burning down. Using this as an example of a failure of ANY utilization device is categorically irresponsible.
NEVER, especially these days, EVER, believe what you read in the news.
The Bolts may have their problems, but the author of this article has absolutely NO CLUE what they're writing about, all the while posing as a damn expert.
Phew... off my soap box.
Attachments
Author's Bio ..."As an avid animal lover, Jamie has two dogs and two cats, and she is a runner, a voracious reader of true crime and enjoys cooking."
She enjoys cooking.
I'd add Jamie also enjoys swerving wildly outside her lane exchanging clicks for the sleepless nights of her unsuspecting readers. Likely while screwing up rice pilaf.
I'm sorry. The electricity running through your walls can kill you in many ways, none of them pleasant. Using feigned knowledge of the subject and leveraging one's media bullhorn to fear monger should be prosecutable.
She enjoys cooking.
I'd add Jamie also enjoys swerving wildly outside her lane exchanging clicks for the sleepless nights of her unsuspecting readers. Likely while screwing up rice pilaf.
I'm sorry. The electricity running through your walls can kill you in many ways, none of them pleasant. Using feigned knowledge of the subject and leveraging one's media bullhorn to fear monger should be prosecutable.
tweaker
Member
Given that the damage is limited only to one of the Line legs (Y specifically) and nothing on the neutral; also the damage is concentrated to the bottom of the pin and inside of the connector body (BTW, loved the "cord cap" term, that's a hardcore Code term, that almost no one ever uses
) , the problem was 99.99% your item 2, A loose wire connecting the terminal of the cord cap to that leg. Depending on who provided the cord (customer bought un-official add-on vs GM provided accessory), that's who's problem it is, so while the neighbor's cat is still 100% innocent, GM may still be at fault if they made/sold the adapter and/or cord for EVSE. Sorry not familiar with Bolt either
Just my 2 cents
EDIT: GM doesn't have a 14-30 adapter that they sell, just a 14-50 they plan to sell sometime in the future. So it is fully on the user and whomever sold her the adapter that she's using. But don't tell that to the click-bait monsters
I thought I read that they were going to be replacing only the modules starting next week, but only for a select few people. The "bad" modules will be sent to the labs for analysis to try to figure out the root cause, and tests to identify it in cars so that going forward they can replace just the defective modules. (In other words they are still looking for a software fix.)
They are starting with the cars most likely to have the known defects. Those early cars will have all modules replaced. Those removed modules will be studied to see if they can detect the bad ones before removal. If they can, they will process subsequent cars by replacing only the "bad" modules.
Exclusive: GM to replace all battery modules in some Chevy Bolts to mitigate fire risk
GM will replace all modules in some Chevy Bolt EVs within weeks to avoid Bolt EV fires. Electrek sits down with a spokesperson from GM to get the details.
electrek.co
RobDickinson
Active Member
Yes, many of us did not believe it would be effective at preventing catastrophic incidents. Sure, it can honk the horn and phone home to OnStar when it starts to overheat, but what good is that?
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I saw this in the comments of the Inside EVs article about the module recall. A 2020 Bolt made November 19th, 2020, in service January 9th, 2021 just caught fire in a similar way.
Apparently a 2020 Bolt has suffered a battery fire
If this is not a one-off from some other issue, then this calls into question the theory that almost everyone (including me) believed was the cause: which are defects in the cells made in the South Korean LG factory. The 2020 Bolts were not part of the recall given the cells were made in LG's Holland, Michigan plant. This is a huge problem for obvious reasons. Hope GM gets to the bottom of this ASAP and is more transparent about the actual causes.
Apparently a 2020 Bolt has suffered a battery fire
If this is not a one-off from some other issue, then this calls into question the theory that almost everyone (including me) believed was the cause: which are defects in the cells made in the South Korean LG factory. The 2020 Bolts were not part of the recall given the cells were made in LG's Holland, Michigan plant. This is a huge problem for obvious reasons. Hope GM gets to the bottom of this ASAP and is more transparent about the actual causes.
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RobDickinson
Active Member
Wow, this is horrible news for LG and GM. You literally cannot park any Bolt inside a garage now for fear of it catching fire. And unlike Tesla, these guys are running around in circles chasing their tail trying to find the “root cause”. They still don’t know, and it’s been over a year now?
Since I had an early 2013 Model S, I remember people were all keen to find out which model of pack they had. Model A packs could only charge to 90 kW, which was the speed of the earliest superchargers. it didn’t take long for Tesla to release 120 kW supercharging, but only B packs and beyond could charge at that speed. I had an A pack and was mildly annoyed at this. Those early Teslas had various problems, and at one point they had to replace my drive unit and there were other trips to the service center. Anyways one day I was supercharging and to my surprise got around 120 kW supercharging. Turns out Tesla had swapped out my A pack for a B pack and didn’t even tell me (I checked the work orders, didn’t see anything, I had to crawl under to look at the serial sticker).
My point is that Tesla had instrumented those packs up the wazoo and knew exactly how they were and were not performing. Out of an abundance of caution, they would simply replace packs with no fuss and bother.
Tesla is just a better car company, period.
The root cause was likely known a while ago. Taking care of it is expensive as the battery is the most expensive part of the entire vehicle. Many times labor is multiple times more expensive than parts.
I get the feeling that GM/LG are still looking at cheap half-assed "solutions".
I get the feeling that GM/LG are still looking at cheap half-assed "solutions".
They are starting with the cars most likely to have the known defects. Those early cars will have all modules replaced. Those removed modules will be studied to see if they can detect the bad ones before removal. If they can, they will process subsequent cars by replacing only the "bad" modules.
Exclusive: GM to replace all battery modules in some Chevy Bolts to mitigate fire risk
GM will replace all modules in some Chevy Bolt EVs within weeks to avoid Bolt EV fires. Electrek sits down with a spokesperson from GM to get the details.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
No one in the public knows if GM knows the actual cause. They have not explicitly said what is the cause, so everyone in the public is in the dark about this (which is what makes this case scary). Everyone is just going by educated guessing given the Kona and Ioniq recall. But the 2020 and newer Bolts supposedly should not be having that issue, given the cells were not made in the same facility. It could be a fundamental flaw in LG's manufacturing process that transferred over to the Michigan facility, it could be that somehow some 2020s got South Korean cells, it could be an issue with Bolt's pack design, or it could be something else unrelated to the battery or cells (GM and LG probably is hoping that is the case for the 2020).
But basically any Bolt owner should really not park their car inside a garage for now, given apparently even 2020s are not necessarily safe and the 2022 refresh largely carries over the same pack and cell design. I'm pretty sure once this case reaches NHTSA there will probably be an official recommendation.
If this particular fire can be confirmed as being cuased by a bad battery module it would be bad news indeed, for all Bolt owners and GM. So far there has been no confirmation (afaik) that it wasn't caused by something else, so I'm not going to get worked up over it just yet.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
But for Bolt owners, few are going to want to take that risk on betting it's something else. It's one thing for property damage (like burning down the garage or house), but a lot of garages are right under bedrooms and there is a real risk of injury or even death, given people may be sleeping (as is commonly the case for overnight charging). There was a update for the last recall to sound the car alarm in case of a car fire, but not sure if this applies to vehicles that are not part of the recall.
If I'm a Bolt owner (any year), I would park outside until GM figures things out, or if that is not possible, at the very least install a smoke detector or two in the garage. I see in the thread people are doing that already.
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I have a '19 that was not recalled. I'm leaving it in the garage for now, which is on the opposite side of the house from our bedroom. If this is my last ever post on this forum, you'll know why. Maybe I'll end up like one of those patients on a ventalator whose final words were "I should have got the vaccine".
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