Rear Camber arms option - Hardrace

[Aggmeister2010]

The camber arms should be able to do that already, no? My question is specifically about the additional toe arms.

Oh whoops. Misread. Yes, camber arms do that.

I would get underneath the car and take a look at how much adjustability you have in the eccentric bolt on your factory toe arms. If the adjustment is neutral in either direction, then you should have plenty of room to adjust without aftermarket Toe arms. If you’re already maxed out and still need more, Then yes, Toe arms would be a good purchase.

 

[Nizzore]

Oh whoops. Misread. Yes, camber arms do that.

I would get underneath the car and take a look at how much adjustability you have in the eccentric bolt on your factory toe arms. If the adjustment is neutral in either direction, then you should have plenty of room to adjust without aftermarket Toe arms. If you’re already maxed out and still need more, Then yes, Toe arms would be a good purchase.

This is a great suggestion. I appreciate all your insight on this thread. I've read it front to back about 3 times

 

[Nizzore]

Oh whoops. Misread. Yes, camber arms do that.

I would get underneath the car and take a look at how much adjustability you have in the eccentric bolt on your factory toe arms. If the adjustment is neutral in either direction, then you should have plenty of room to adjust without aftermarket Toe arms. If you’re already maxed out and still need more, Then yes, Toe arms would be a good purchase.

Hey @Aggmeister2010 , do you have any resources you can point me towards regarding the toe adjustment and what constitutes neutral?

 

[Aggmeister2010]

Hey @Aggmeister2010 , do you have any resources you can point me towards regarding the toe adjustment and what constitutes neutral?

Neutral toe is a value of 0.0, plain and simple. It's not generally recommended to do true 0.0, because a little bit of toe helps 'center' the car and give it more straight-line stability. Also, when you're accelerating with a AWD car, the power to the front wheels will pull them forward, so that toe out becomes more straight. When you're cornering, that toe-out gives a little more angle to the leading wheel, giving you better handling in most cases.

Tesla's specification calls for toe-out in the front, and toe-in in the rear. I just err on the neutral side of their specified range. For example, it's excess toe in the rear that cuases the most inner edge wear....not the camber as much as people think.

 

[Nizzore]

Neutral toe is a value of 0.0, plain and simple. It's not generally recommended to do true 0.0, because a little bit of toe helps 'center' the car and give it more straight-line stability. Also, when you're accelerating with a AWD car, the power to the front wheels will pull them forward, so that toe out becomes more straight. When you're cornering, that toe-out gives a little more angle to the leading wheel, giving you better handling in most cases.

Tesla's specification calls for toe-out in the front, and toe-in in the rear. I just err on the neutral side of their specified range. For example, it's excess toe in the rear that cuases the most inner edge wear....not the camber as much as people think.

Thank you. And specifically about getting under the car to check the toe adjustments. How would I know if there's additional room for adjustment without potentially messing up my current alignment?

 

[gearchruncher]

How would I know if there's additional room for adjustment without potentially messing up my current alignment?

In reality, you can't unless you really know what you are doing and can do some math. You're going to need to take the rear wheels off, and look at where the current toe adjusters are. Going less camber means the car toes in. So how much toe out adjustment do you have left?

Your current alignment shows 0.43° of toe in, so unfortunately, you already want some of that adjustment to fix your current toe. You have a lot of cross camber though, so you're only going to want to adjust your right side by about 0.5°, which will help.

If you can find an alignment shop to do it, I'd just adjust for zero toe and get whatever you can camber wise.

 

[Nizzore]

In reality, you can't unless you really know what you are doing and can do some math. You're going to need to take the rear wheels off, and look at where the current toe adjusters are. Going less camber means the car toes in. So how much toe out adjustment do you have left?

Your current alignment shows 0.43° of toe in, so unfortunately, you already want some of that adjustment to fix your current toe. You have a lot of cross camber though, so you're only going to want to adjust your right side by about 0.5°, which will help.

If you can find an alignment shop to do it, I'd just adjust for zero toe and get whatever you can camber wise.

I just had Tesla align the beast. I'm unsure why they didn't dial in toe on the rear as well. It was wayyyyy off before. I wonder if that's as good as it gets.

 

[Aggmeister2010]

Thank you. And specifically about getting under the car to check the toe adjustments. How would I know if there's additional room for adjustment without potentially messing up my current alignment?

Just look at the position of the eccentric bolt. if the lobe is in the middle where it's not pushing out to one side, you have room to go.

 

[ffearless]

As a point of reference, I installed the Hardrace Camber adjustable arm on my 2020 Model S performance and didn't buy the toe arms. I couldn't get enough adjustment with the stock eccentric bolt and had to buy the adjustable toe arms to get where where I wanted the toe setting to be.

 

[krsgio]

As a point of reference, I installed the Hardrace Camber adjustable arm on my 2020 Model S performance and didn't buy the toe arms. I couldn't get enough adjustment with the stock eccentric bolt and had to buy the adjustable toe arms to get where where I wanted the toe setting to be.

are you lowered?

 

[Aggmeister2010]

are you lowered?

for reference, I am lowered and still using the factory toe arms, within spec.

 

[krsgio]

I'm also lowered but mine were maxed out and unable to get desired toe with factory arms.

 

[Aggmeister2010]

I'm also lowered but mine were maxed out and unable to get desired toe with factory arms.

I would bet it's going to be a "your results may vary" situation, based on the manufacturing tolerances that day and how well centered/aligned your subframe is.

 

[gearchruncher]

I would bet it's going to be a "your results may vary" situation, based on the manufacturing tolerances

By definition it is. If manufacturing tolerances were good enough, we wouldn't need alignment adjusters at all. So every car will be different in if they need toe arms.

A reminder to everyone that toe has more impact than camber on inner tire wear. You can always do like I did and just do max toe out on the adjusters and then adjust camber until I got zero toe, and then just live with that camber. In my case that was about 0.7 degrees of camber.

 

[ffearless]

are you lowered?

I am lowered to reduce potential damage to front half shafts.

 

[Nizzore]

Anyone have a definite list of tools required for this diy project? Bolt sizes and such

 

[krsgio]

Anyone have a definite list of tools required for this diy project? Bolt sizes and such

don't recall off the top of my head. I think just 15mm and 18mm. Helps to have a combo of wrench and sockets. Also need something to remove the ride height sensor from the control arm something like a flat head can work. Then if you gotta remove it and install the ride height ball head to the other arms a crescent wrench will work since I dont recall the size. Prob close to 10mm.

Edit: and the obvious things like a jack to lift up the vehicle. Then I think I used the handle of the jack for leverage to get some the inner bolts free with a wrench.

 

[Nizzore]

don't recall off the top of my head. I think just 15mm and 18mm. Helps to have a combo of wrench and sockets. Also need something to remove the ride height sensor from the control arm something like a flat head can work. Then if you gotta remove it and install the ride height ball head to the other arms a crescent wrench will work since I dont recall the size. Prob close to 10mm.

Edit: and the obvious things like a jack to lift up the vehicle. Then I think I used the handle of the jack for leverage to get some the inner bolts free with a wrench.

Thanks that's helpful. Where can I get the torque specs? Seems like the Tesla manual isn't available for free anymore

 

[gearchruncher]

Thanks that's helpful. Where can I get the torque specs? Seems like the Tesla manual isn't available for free anymore

All the Tesla Service manuals are free and they are excellent.

Service.tesla.com

You do have to register for an account, but it's free. You do not nerd the pay for account which gives you toolbox access.

 

[krsgio]

Thanks that's helpful. Where can I get the torque specs? Seems like the Tesla manual isn't available for free anymore

you can find the specs listed from any the various manufacturers of the arms UPP, N2itive etc. Just google.