EarlyAdopter
Active Member
Only to the same extent ABS would have entered into car conversation 25 years ago and seat belts 25 years before that.
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Only to the same extent ABS would have entered into car conversation 25 years ago and seat belts 25 years before that.
Not every car conversation nor every conversation about a company that makes cars.
ThosEM
Space Weatherman
It's even closer if we compare the MS with BMW 7 (4795 lb), Audi 8 (TDI) (4365 lb), M-B S Class (4630 lb), Porsche Panamera Hybrid (4365 lb), Lexus LS Hybrid (5360 lb!). And they are also comparable in terms of base cost, accommodations, as well as curb weight. I ran those numbers on the US News car comparison site recently, and was pleased to see how aggressive the Model S pricing is on a scale of high end "comparables."
ThosEM
Space Weatherman
This is off topic but it's interesting to hear others' approach to tailgating. I've tried most things, and sometimes they work, but can also trigger anger in the follower, like the trucker who blared his horn at me in New Jersey last weekend, in tight traffic that gave me no exit. One tailgater passed me on the right in a low traffic, two lane situation with double yellow center line and well marked shoulders. I guess they felt I should have pulled over to get out of their way. NB: I always drive 5-10 mph over the speed limit except when it gets up to 70+ mph, since that is the typical "margin of error" allowed by enforcement.
In the DC area, we train each other to tailgate by aggressively inserting ourselves into any "excess" space that appears between cars. If you don't follow closely enough, you will be confronted with a car that you are then tailgating, before you know it. So to avoid that, many drivers engage in preemptive tailgating. This is born of traffic congestion at low speeds where it isn't really tailgating, and then spreads to higher speeds when the congestion lets up even slightly. Of course, this forces one to slow down each time additional space is to be allowed up ahead.
I've often thought about implementing a rear window washer spray that could be directed rearward onto the tailgating vehicle. Another option might be to use a proximity sensor to automatically flash the center brake light whenever a car approaches too closely behind. Police cruisers in the vicinity would thereby receive visual indicators of aggressive driving.
But until some new feature is developed to combat this scourge, the four-way flasher idea seems like a winner to me. I'll give it a try...
Al Sherman
It's about THIS car.
Not really off topic since we're discussing a high speed rear end collision. The "aggressive insertion" driving is a real problem for me. I just can't bring myself to drive as if it were a NASCAR race. So, I'm the guy who keeps letting others in front and slowing down to get the proper following distance. I find it VERY annoying, but I can't find an answer except not to drive in cities. It amazes me how many people have no idea how dangerous what they're doing really is.
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
I would suggest that's a comment better made in the ACC thread and not this one, as it has nothing to do with a terrible accident in which someone ran into the back of a car and killed three people, two of them children.
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
(1) A car was rear ended. (2) It caught fire. (3) 3 people died. What would you suggest we discuss in this thread then? Only the facts of 1, 2, and 3? Or ways to prevent 1, 2, or 3?
Or only ways to prevent 1, 2, or 3 that you find agreeable and aren't bored with?
The former. The latter goes off-topic in less than 3 posts every time, and we already have dedicated prevention topics.
Pilot_51
Member
It seems appropriate to keep the discussion on how Tesla, Toyota, and the media are responding to the accident. Otherwise, this thread has served it's purpose.
I agree with this, on a highway you may not be able to pull over if you are already in the right lane. If they are tailgating in the rightmost lane and don't change lanes to pass they have issues. @Doug_g my statement was not intended as criticism though I see that it could be interpreted that way. @Brianman Agree that if you open space and they don't like it they can/should pass when safe.
And maybe to keep everyone in a happy mood I should add that ACC would make Doug_g's approach automagic since with most ACC systems you can adjust the follow distance. :love:
NigelM
Recovering Member
Folks, do we really need another thread on ACC? There's really lots of them already.
For anyone who wants to argue that it's relevant to a rear-end accident, it's not. Bad drivers are bad drivers; if they want folks to get out their way they're going to tailgate. ACC will not stop tailgaters from tailgating, nor speeders from speeding.
For anyone who wants to argue that it's relevant to a rear-end accident, it's not. Bad drivers are bad drivers; if they want folks to get out their way they're going to tailgate. ACC will not stop tailgaters from tailgating, nor speeders from speeding.
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
Bad drivers, tailgating, inattentiveness, and bad judgement are exactly why collision avoidance systems (not ACC) are important and extremely relevant. We cannot change everyone's behavior, but we can employ technology to mitigate damage when that bad behavior presents itself. If a tailgater's car was outfitted with such a system it would reduce the harm they can do to others.
Nigel, it's because of this sort of bias or ignorance that I feel it's extremely important to discuss this technology at times like this, much like ABS and seat belts were (and sometimes inexplicably still) debated. People get themselves into bad situations and sometimes technology can help bail them out (or mitigate damage). This is one of those times.
The data backs this up. In a recent IIHS study, Honda Accords equipped with collisions avoidance systems had 40% fewer bodily injury claims than those without.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
No one is saying NOT to discuss it. We (moderators and others) are asking that we group the discussion in ONE place, so that we don't have multiple threads all over the forum. You'll get a better, more thoughtful discussion that way. This way, people have to know to click on a link about an accident to find this particular discussion. And will have to search a long time to find similar discussions in other threads that don't have anything about it in the title. That's not helpful to anyone.
Fair?
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Exactly.
Alexander
P# 8,878
Ok... this comes from a credible source. An old friend of mine from high school is a Sheriff's Deputy in Palmdale and was on patrol when the accident happened. I ran into him last night and he said that he heard the call go out over the radio, and that the Toyota was "immobilized" when it got hit.
Those were his word's and that's all he knew. The CHP responded to the call, not the Sheriff's Department. So that's all he could tell me.
Those were his word's and that's all he knew. The CHP responded to the call, not the Sheriff's Department. So that's all he could tell me.
Alexander
P# 8,878
That's also a very fast freeway. Although the speed limit is 65, everyone consistently drives 75 to 80 mph. If your driving the speed limit on that section of the 14 freeway, you're actually a hazard. It's the only freeway I know where the CHP won't pull you over unless your going more then 20 mph over the limit. Simply because EVERYONE is driving that fast.
So I wouldn't be surprised if the Tesla was going at least 70mph when they hit.
So I wouldn't be surprised if the Tesla was going at least 70mph when they hit.
ThosEM
Space Weatherman
Good info. But this still leaves open the question of why the Toyota was moving so much more slowly than the Tesla at impact. It seems that the "closing" speed must have been close to 80 mph to have done that much damage. This doesn't really seem like a case of tailgating at all. It's as if the Toyota made a low speed lane change that went unnoticed by the Tesla driver until it was too late. Perhaps this will come out in the investigation.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Because they're going 20 mph over the speed limit, they likely don't have the sight distance required to have even a reasonable chance of avoiding anything like a stopped car. Speed limits aren't just for revenue enhancement--although some are, and those train drivers to ignore the speed limits.
True. And at least you're helping to avoid a multi-car pileup. Some of those 2 lane roads with speed limits of 80 km are real dangerous in the winter and people still follow way too close.
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