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Rear-Ender accident in Palmdale - 7/4/14

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Another data point. I was stopped at a red light behind a small truck (electrician IIRC), I was DIRECTLY behind, and he decided he needed to turn at the light so he put it in reverse and backed into me, despite my horn blaring at him. I was in a hurry, on my way to the airport, but I figured they'd try to say I rear-ended him, so I got the driver to sign a statement that he had reversed into me. Not surprisingly his insurance company tried to get out of it, so I just sent them a copy of his letter.
 
Moderator note: We already have a b'zillion (give or take) threads on ACC. I'm going to move some of these posts over to the Technical area of the forum and ask a local mod over there to merge them into the thread titled (appropriately) Adaptive Cruise Control .

Raffy and others, I know you're huge proponents of this. But this thread is about an accident & somehow it got turned into yet-another-discussion on ACC.
 
The KTLA story linked elsewhere misidentifies the car as a Honda. From the pics, the wheels are clearly Toyota, so the NBC story seems to be right about that.

Terrible tragedy.
In regards to inordinate weight, agreed. Some may argue that the acceleration in a model s can more quickly bring the car to lethal speeds along local streets but still that's not a reason to single out the model s over any other performance vehicle.

Tesla still have that mystical allure that the media can't resist.




There seems to be a mistaken notion that the MS is particularly heavy, but that's not the case:

- Model S: 4,647 lbs
- Audi RS7: 4,475 lbs
- BMW M5: 4,387 lbs
- Maserati Quattroporte: 4,389 lbs
- MB CLS 550: 4,255 lbs

The MS is about ~10% heavier that the lightest of these (the MB) and any of these cars driven at high speed will become a weapon. An before we start picking on performance sedans, the lightest version of the Ford F-150, the most popular vehicle in the US, is 4,685 lbs (this should drop by ~700 lbs with the intro of the aluminum 2015 model).

O
 
Moderator note: We already have a b'zillion (give or take) threads on ACC. I'm going to move some of these posts over to the Technical area of the forum and ask a local mod over there to merge them into the thread titled (appropriately) Adaptive Cruise Control .

Raffy and others, I know you're huge proponents of this. But this thread is about an accident & somehow it got turned into yet-another-discussion on ACC.

ACC posts are now waiting merge over in Merge w/ Adaptive Cruise Control.

Since approximately half of this thread was off-topic discussing ACC, I'm bound to have moved (or not moved) appropriately. Innocent bystanders may have been impacted.

No judgment, please. Doing my best with a very messy thread. Thanks!
 
ACC posts are now waiting merge over in Merge w/ Adaptive Cruise Control.

Since approximately half of this thread was off-topic discussing ACC, I'm bound to have moved (or not moved) appropriately. Innocent bystanders may have been impacted.

No judgment, please. Doing my best with a very messy thread. Thanks!

Well, seeing as how this is exactly the sort of accident that collision avoidance systems are designed to mitigate, I'd have thought it was rather on-topic actually.

Also, it's worth noting that collision avoidance systems, sometimes referred to as "autobrakes," are not the same thing as adaptive cruise control (ACC), though they often (but not always) come bundled together and may use some of the same hardware.
 
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Well, seeing as how this is exactly the sort of accident that collision avoidance systems are designed to mitigate, I'd have thought it was rather on-topic actually.

Also, it's worth nothing that collision avoidance systems, sometimes referred to as "autobrakes," are not the same thing as adaptive cruise control (ACC), though they often (but not always) come bundled together and may use some of the same hardware.

It comes down to forum organization -- if we have dozens of the same conversation happening everywhere on the same topic, then people get completely frustrated when they are trying to find the topic again. If we keep the ACC discussions together, along with other safety features, then the discussion is more likely to happen in one place and there is less frustration. (That's why we like to have accurate thread titles, too.)

We could also argue that a lot of other things could then be *topical* in any thread. Accident happened? Then we can talk about vehicle maintenance, road maintenance, if driver had enough sleep, texting while driving, ACC, other active safety measures, windshield wipers, headlights, etc. You get my point.
 
California is a comparable negligence state. If the other party is found to have partially contributed to the accident (no matter how small), then they'll have to pay for a percentage of the damages. Just because you rear end somebody doesn't mean your 100% liable, and there are circumstances (like the ones described above) where you could have no liability at all.

I grew up in the Antelope Valley. I got calls from family and friends that morning telling me about the accident. Im sorry for everyone's loss.
 
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As I have gotten older, I find myself driving more and more defensively, especially in our two Tesla's, and especially on multi-lane highways in urban areas.

Following too closely is epidemic. All the time I have people come up behind me suddenly, even when I am travelling the speed limit or slightly above, and sit so close I cannot even see their headlights. All I'd have to do is sneeze and they would rear-end me. Infuriating!
 
A quick Facebook search shows a Dr. Ric S. Garrison, a plastic surgeon, with a practice in Palmdale. His personal page, found in his friend's list, doesn't show a town or any references to Tesla that I could find. I have no idea if this is the driver or not.

UPDATE: KTLA is reporting that this is indeed the individual involved.

Thoughts and prayers to all involved and their families.

I share the feelings of sadness and thoughts and prayers to all involved and their families trying to cope with this tragic and sudden loss. Auto-pilot and/or self-driving vehicles will save thousands of lives over time when they are introduced and their numbers increase... I hope there will be an "auto-pilot" feature available for Model X at introduction. If not, the sensors should be there so the software can be added later. While waiting for MX P83, I'm currently driving a 2014 E350 sport sedan with all the latest Mercedes driving safety systems, smart ACC, auto || parking, line keeping assist (useless), 360-degree camera, etc. It has radar and cameras mounted behind the rear view mirror and would have automatically applied the brakes in a similar situation if I didn't. I'll post details to the other thread when I get a chance. Meanwhile, here's the owner's manual (starts at page 67) for those interested. Tesla has access to all Benz technology so there is no reason why they can't integrate these safety features into an optional package in the future - hopefully at Model X introduction and when the Model S is "refreshed".

BTW, the Model S' driver's FB page has been taken down.
 
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As I have gotten older, I find myself driving more and more defensively, especially in our two Tesla's, and especially on multi-lane highways in urban areas.

Following too closely is epidemic. All the time I have people come up behind me suddenly, even when I am travelling the speed limit or slightly above, and sit so close I cannot even see their headlights. All I'd have to do is sneeze and they would rear-end me. Infuriating!

I am slowly reaching that same stage, prompted in part by my TMS. I am more likely than ever to pull aside to let them pass. Risking an accident is just not worth it.
 
Following too closely is epidemic. All the time I have people come up behind me suddenly, even when I am travelling the speed limit or slightly above, and sit so close I cannot even see their headlights. All I'd have to do is sneeze and they would rear-end me. Infuriating!

What I do is add their missing following distance to MY following distance. That way if something happens in front of me we both have enough time to react. Also this often leads to them passing.
 
California is a comparable negligence state. If the other party is found to have partially contributed to the accident (no matter how small), then they'll have to pay for a percentage of the damages. Just because you rear end somebody doesn't mean your 100% liable, and there are circumstances (like the ones described above) where you could have no liability at all.

I grew up in the Antelope Valley. I got calls from family and friends that morning telling me about the accident. Im sorry for everyone's loss.

IMO it's not a matter of who is guilty and who is not. Main point is to try to avoid accidents and save human lives.
 
Auto-pilot and/or self-driving vehicles will save thousands of lives over time when they are introduced and their numbers increase...
Are "ACC" and "auto-pilot" the new "climate change"? They're starting to show up in every thread now just like climate change used to. I'm already bored of both topics because of the multi-thread spam.

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What I do is add their missing following distance to MY following distance. That way if something happens in front of me we both have enough time to react. Also this often leads to them passing.
I've done this as well (in multiple cars).

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A little more passive aggressive (from the followers point of view) than just pulling aside but it seems like it would work.
Disagree. If the guy behind you is following too closely, it's a safety decision to leave more space in front of you.

Passive aggressive would be more like dropping the cruise control by 1mph increments every 15 seconds until the guy behind you backs off or passes. I've done that before, but not often.
 
What I do is add their missing following distance to MY following distance. That way if something happens in front of me we both have enough time to react. Also this often leads to them passing.

Yes, this is one of the techniques I refer to by being more defensive. I also routinely turn on my 4-way flashers when people follow so closely that there is no chance of avoid a collision in an unexpected occurrence, particularly if I am trapped in the lane in heavy traffic.