Recurrent: Model 3 drivers got 72% of EPA range with new cars, 64% after three years

[3sr+buyer]

New Updates: How Long Do Electric Car Batteries Last?

We get a lot of questions from our community about electric car batteries. That is partly because the cost of battery replacement is so high (more on that later), but it is also due to limited information.

www.recurrentauto.com

Study says that Tesla Model 3 drivers reporting to Recurrent were getting about 72% of EPA range with new cars, 64% after three years. 72->64 is about 12% loss, which is apparently considered fairly typical for NCA batteries.

But it also indicates that the average Tesla Model 3 driver drives much less economically than the EPA driver / test, to the point of 28% worse efficiency (or 39% greater consumption), when looking at the actual range experienced versus the EPA range.

 

[KenC]

Weird chart! Why combine two ideas, deg and efficiency, when that's only going to confuse people? Below is the Recurrent chart for my car. Clearly, my 3 is an outlier in their data. Not top mention my battery's age is over 2000 days, so I'm off their chart.

As for efficiency: I been averaging about 255Wh/mi, which puts my EPA range at about 294mi, or 95% of EPA rated range.

Then, my newest tires, Vredestien QuatracPro+, get about 225Wh/mi at 65mph. Very efficient. My OEM tires got 235Wh/mi.

I don't know about others, but I find Recurrent's data to be a bit odd, not to mention their report is almost indecipherable, if it's written for a newbie looking to buy a used EV.

 

[KenBlub]

Something must be wrong with my car. I’m averaging 234wh/mi which is darn close to rated efficiency.

 

[DuncanM]

Weird chart! Why combine two ideas, deg and efficiency, when that's only going to confuse people? Below is the Recurrent chart for my car. Clearly, my 3 is an outlier in their data. Not top mention my battery's age is over 2000 days, so I'm off their chart.

View attachment 1050920

As for efficiency: I been averaging about 255Wh/mi, which puts my EPA range at about 294mi, or 95% of EPA rated range.

Then, my newest tires, Vredestien QuatracPro+, get about 225Wh/mi at 65mph. Very efficient. My OEM tires got 235Wh/mi.View attachment 1050929
I don't know about others, but I find Recurrent's data to be a bit odd, not to mention their report is almost indecipherable, if it's written for a newbie looking to buy a used EV.

New Updates: How Long Do Electric Car Batteries Last?

We get a lot of questions from our community about electric car batteries. That is partly because the cost of battery replacement is so high (more on that later), but it is also due to limited information.

www.recurrentauto.com

Study says that Tesla Model 3 drivers reporting to Recurrent were getting about 72% of EPA range with new cars, 64% after three years. 72->64 is about 12% loss, which is apparently considered fairly typical for NCA batteries.

But it also indicates that the average Tesla Model 3 driver drives much less economically than the EPA driver / test, to the point of 28% worse efficiency (or 39% greater consumption), when looking at the actual range experienced versus the EPA range.

I get about 72% of EPA when cruising on the Freeway at ~80mph (130kph). When cruising at 60mph (~100kph) I get the EPA combined range.

 

[priyadar]

Question. If Model 3 batteries degrade down to 64% after three years, won't they qualify for battery replacement under warranty provided that their mileage is less than 100,000?

 

[Petermcg]

My five year old 2019 M3LR has 124,431 miles on it and has 90% of the EPA range remaining.

 

[KenC]

Question. If Model 3 batteries degrade down to 64% after three years, won't they qualify for battery replacement under warranty provided that their mileage is less than 100,000?

That's not what the chart is showing, which is why I said it's ridiculous, because people will be confused.

 

[Lindenwood]

Climate and average speeds make such a huge difference. Bebopping around NORCAL’s perfect weather at 55mph, where the climate control could be run on a cell phone battery, is MUCH different than, for example, constant trips at 85mph across open Texas highways at 108 degrees in the summer and 35 in the winter.

 

[Petermcg]

Climate and average speeds make such a huge difference. Bebopping around NORCAL’s perfect weather at 55mph, where the climate control could be run on a cell phone battery, is MUCH different than, for example, constant trips at 85mph across open Texas highways at 108 degrees in the summer and 35 in the winter.

True that.

 

[rcm1201]

Weird chart! Why combine two ideas, deg and efficiency, when that's only going to confuse people? Below is the Recurrent chart for my car. Clearly, my 3 is an outlier in their data. Not top mention my battery's age is over 2000 days, so I'm off their chart.

View attachment 1050920

As for efficiency: I been averaging about 255Wh/mi, which puts my EPA range at about 294mi, or 95% of EPA rated range.

Then, my newest tires, Vredestien QuatracPro+, get about 225Wh/mi at 65mph. Very efficient. My OEM tires got 235Wh/mi.View attachment 1050929
I don't know about others, but I find Recurrent's data to be a bit odd, not to mention their report is almost indecipherable, if it's written for a newbie looking to buy a used EV.

What app tracks all that info for you? (soon to be new Tesla owner waiting on my first M3P to arrive)

 

[electrons4u]

When cruising at 60mph (~100kph) I get the EPA combined range.

I get the EPA range when cruising at 65 mph (~105 kph) with no heating or cooling.

 

[p-f-g]

These charts attempt to include everything (charging, preheating, etc.).

Recurrent — Real world range for Tesla owners and how we're helping

www.recurrentauto.com

Over the past year, we’ve been collecting Tesla data with a new methodology, using distance between charging sessions and local temperatures, instead of the top-line dashboard range displayed to drivers. With over 360,000 charging cycles from over 12,000 Teslas on the road, and with feedback from thousands of our active Tesla drivers, we’re ready to pull back the curtain on Tesla’s range performance in hot and cold weather.

The reality is that the laws of physics apply to Tesla, too – Tesla is not much different than other automakers. When you need to heat and cool your car – and your battery – in hot and cold weather conditions, you can’t drive as far. That impact is substantially lessened when a car is equipped with a heat pump and advanced thermal management, which many newer Teslas (and other cars) are.

 

[tstafford]

Climate and average speeds make such a huge difference. Bebopping around NORCAL’s perfect weather at 55mph, where the climate control could be run on a cell phone battery, is MUCH different than, for example, constant trips at 85mph across open Texas highways at 108 degrees in the summer and 35 in the winter.

This. I strongly believe the conditions and speed are much, much bigger factors than degradation.

I'm positive my MS's didn't lose 12% capacity over three years.

 

[garth_angst]

Something must be wrong with my car. I’m averaging 234wh/mi which is darn close to rated efficiency.

I have a 2019 M3LR with about 26k miles (I work from home since pandemic) and I have 225wk/mi. 80% charge for me when I got it was 248 miles range. Now it is between 230 and 238, very good it would seem. I also get OVER the EPA in the summer, with wh/mi around 205 and getting 250 miles an an 80% charge. I am a conservative driver and gun it when necessary. I also only charge when I get down to about 20%.

 

[tivoboy]

I get the EPA range when cruising at 65 mph (~105 kph) with no heating or cooling.

I get better than the EPA range when cruising along at 68-70…usually something like 215-220, and that includes some minor elevation changes.. once I get to 72+, I’m only at ~ 250-265, which I’m fine with.

After 34K miles, the reported max charge range is 306, vs. either 310/315 depending on SW update.

Speed, rain, ambient temp impact are the biggest factors to reduce range, but even then I land somewhere at about 88% of “EPA” range, which again I’m fine with.

 

[electrons4u]

Current battery degradation is between 2.9 and 3.4% at 19,500 mi on a 2022 Model 3 LR AWD. Tesla rounds to the nearest mile on the display, so can't get any closer than that. I mostly charge at home at around 7.5 kW but have Supercharged on two 1000-mi trips (1 in 2022, 1 in 2023) and one 2300-mile trip in 2024. Only 29 Supercharger sessions since the car was new. Lots of around town, which is probably why my original tires are already worn out (Michelin Primacy MXM4 AC P235/45R18 98W XL). Shopping for new ones now.

 

[Regaj]

After the error-filled piece that Recurrent published late last year suggesting that Lithium batteries are not affected by frequent Supercharging, and this latest effort of theirs where they have conflated efficiency and degradation... I think their credibility is pretty well shot.

 

[KenC]

What app tracks all that info for you? (soon to be new Tesla owner waiting on my first M3P to arrive)

The first image I used is from Recurrent. You can sign up for free. They send me a monthly report, including stuff like this:

The second is from ABRP, also known as ABRP. I think Rivian bought them, but most of their data is from Tesla. They are a good trip planner, but as Tesla's planner has gotten better, fewer people need to use it. It gives you a way to simulate trips you are thinking about, as well as a way to try other EVs to see how they compare. Like, will the Cybertruck do the same trip as fast as my 3. That sort of thing. It also gives you various metrics, as I posted.

I just drove 420mi roundtrip on Sunday, where I turned on the AC, so my calibrated reference at 65mph went up to 247Wh/mi. Also tells you if your tires are smaller than OEM, so what your speed overage is, etc. ABRP is also a free app. If you subscribe, you can save your trip data, but it's not necessary for 90% of what you want.

 

[Kelculate]

Also, Recurrent never corrected the EPA range for 2023 M3LR, thinking that it is 358 miles instead of 333 miles for that year. I even e-mailed them about it last year.

My car reported a lifetime 233Whr/mi efficiency, which is slightly better than EPA rating

 

[yesimon]

Ask Tesla how they calculate "70% retention" and you may be surprised. It's not 70% retention from new, it's 70% retention compared to fleet average. Every other EV maker warrants retention against new. Not Tesla! And guess who has all of that data? Tesla. Not you. The degradation guarantee is basically worthless.

I've never heard of this before. Do you have a source for this claim? The language in the warranty documents is "minimum 70% retention of battery capacity over the warranty period". The language seems pretty clear and there's no mention of relative capacity or fleet average. Typically the main "gotcha" about battery warranties is that you don't get a brand new replacement battery, but rather a used/refurbished battery with equal or better degradation. A warrantied battery replacement also doesn't reset the warranty period.

Lots of people out there daily cycling their nickel-based powerwalls at negative expected values thinking that they'll just get a brand new battery after 10 years.