Red multi coat is now $2,500 - I would love to be a fly on the wall in their meetings!

[OutofThyme]

Info is relayed Tesla statements that have come out of investor tours of the plant. The one I give on general assembly is an explicit target number they've given.

Listen more carefully. That's the flowery, aspirational stuff you're misreading. I'm not sure he's made detailed public statements about percentages and such. I'm not sure he's ever sat for a really good technical detail interview on this stuff? It mostly seems PR fluff grade stuff. Which is a little disappointing because I have no doubt he's got those numbers and more rolling around his head ready to spit out, but he's got cars to sell and the interviews for general public consumption are Tesla's version of advertising.

It's important to understand that automation takes time to dial in the details. Tesla is doing this live. They're doing it faster, much faster, than auto makers have.

"Ship early, iterate."

Also, paint defects coming off factory lines and after shipping is hardly uncommon thing. Two things with Tesla that are different are the electron microscope this is under (for various reasons) and the much slower pace of logistics with dealerships doing repairs that they don't mention to you.

That data point I knew. I think we agree, but I also think we're also arguing about two different time periods. My whole criticism on their manufacturing approach was the years leading up to full Model 3 production. I mean, Elon only released the fact that, humans are underrated in their efficient approach to building these cars in the Q1 report just this year. This is further backed by his factory walk with MKHBD. So I am still a little unconvinced that he had always planned having that much manual labor *currently* in the model 3, until he realized its necessary for now.

In fact, the "flowery aspirational stuff" I'm misreading, I'll also file that under "Funding secured" and "3 months maybe, 6 months definitely" since that's probably where it belongs, haha.

And the point about automation takes time to dial in the details. Oh boy, do I know about that, and agree. The crux is, I wish Tesla had implemented more people earlier. You can argue Hindsight 20/20, I'm just saying there's precedent from people on the other side that "hey, manual labor has worked and is working. It takes time like you said, they should have taken that time w/ the manual labor. Because although, ideally automation is cheap and efficient, when these vision system robots fail and you have automation engineers on the floor live diagnosing them, stopping entire production lines, it is far far far cheaper to pay more techs than it is an automation engineer (at least for now.) But I chalk it up to Musk taking a risk and it didn't pan out 100% and that's okay.

Also, yup on the paint defects, double-edged sword of the dealership model. Do you think boosting QC at the end of paint instead of having rework at 3rd party dealerships would be better for Tesla? Or do you think the current process is better since if people are taking these cars, its money in the pocket and the rework vs QC at the factory is a wash in cost? Overloading EoL QC vs SCs, really.

 

[ℬête Noire]

But I chalk it up to Musk taking a risk and it didn't pan out 100% and that's okay.

Yet you're taking several posts to complain and dump on it?

Also, yup on the paint defects, double-edged sword of the dealership model. Do you think boosting QC at the end of paint instead of having rework at 3rd party dealerships would be better for Tesla?

They don't need a 3rd party to do that.

They've got facility where customers come in to pick up the item. It's the JIT nature of where they're at, if they had more time at the delivery center they could futz on it. Ultimately that's where they're heading anyway with these in-house body repair centers, I expect.

So it's not dealership/no dealership model per se, more just a consequence that the dealerships historically weren't able to sell vehicles without people looking at them, without the vehicle being physically in front of them (some exceptions have happened on this). So they had both the impetus and time to do it.

Tesla just needs to make the choice and execute.....why everything else that Needs To Be Done is happening.

 

[OutofThyme]

Yet you're taking several posts to complain and dump on it?

They don't need a 3rd party to do that.

They've got facility where customers come in to pick up the item. It's the JIT nature of where they're at, if they had more time at the delivery center they could futz on it. Ultimately that's where they're heading anyway with these in-house body repair centers, I expect.

So it's not dealership/no dealership model per se, more just a consequence that the dealerships historically weren't able to sell vehicles without people looking at them, without the vehicle being physically in front of them (some exceptions have happened on this). So they had both the impetus and time to do it.

Tesla just needs to make the choice and execute.....why everything else that Needs To Be Done is happening.

This a forum right? For discussion? We just had a discussion and it made me say it was okay. What is wrong with that? I was hardly attacking Tesla. If I wanted to attack Tesla, I'd just start quoting SeekingAlpha.

Also, I mistyped, definitely did not mean 3rd party dealership (repair shops) and yeah I'm happy to see that Tesla is starting up their in-house repairs to help alleviate it.

 

[tom_1983]

But this isn't a premium luxury car. This is the $35,000 car for the masses. The masses buy cars with the paint included.

$35,000 car? Love to see a link to where you can buy the Model 3 for $35,000 considering mine came to $96,580 CAD after taxes and delivery. The $35,000 doesn't even exist yet, and last time I checked, the $35,000 version is far from a luxury car, more like a souped up golf cart since it's missing pretty much everything that makes the Model 3 so nice. You lost me with the $35,000 as you might as well have said the Model Y if you're going to talk about something that doesn't even exist and can't even be ordered yet. For all you know the $35,000 might come in black only and nothing else.

Perhaps you should visit BMW or Mercedes website and see what paint colours are included for free and what you get for an upgrade. People on these forums all act like they have never bought a nice car before when this is completely common practice. Don't want to pay extra for it? Then get black, it's not hard.

 

[PeterK]

But this isn't a premium luxury car. This is the $35,000 car for the masses. The masses buy cars with the paint included.

It is a premium-class car, but on a smaller, cheaper scale. The Model 3 is priced almost perfectly in line with BMW 3 series, Audi A4 or Mercedes C Class, from base model in the $34-35K range, to M3/S/R/AMG in the $70-80K range. These are the high-volume versions of premium luxury brands, but they are not mass-market vehicles. When Tesla shows Model 3 market share, they refer to "Mid-sized Premium Sedans."

 

[voip-ninja]

$35,000 car? Love to see a link to where you can buy the Model 3 for $35,000 considering mine came to $96,580 CAD after taxes and delivery. The $35,000 doesn't even exist yet, and last time I checked, the $35,000 version is far from a luxury car, more like a souped up golf cart since it's missing pretty much everything that makes the Model 3 so nice. You lost me with the $35,000 as you might as well have said the Model Y if you're going to talk about something that doesn't even exist and can't even be ordered yet. For all you know the $35,000 might come in black only and nothing else.

Perhaps you should visit BMW or Mercedes website and see what paint colours are included for free and what you get for an upgrade. People on these forums all act like they have never bought a nice car before when this is completely common practice. Don't want to pay extra for it? Then get black, it's not hard.

I hate to break it to you but $35K Model 3 and $50K LR Model 3 are virtually identical other than range and amenities.... that is until or unless Tesla decides to change something up. Is $50K LR3 with nicer roof, seats, stereo also a "souped up golf cart"?

You come across as someone who is insecure that there will be a much less expensive version of the car you bought available fairly soon that will be highly similar to it.

 

[tom_1983]

I hate to break it to you but $35K Model 3 and $50K LR Model 3 are virtually identical other than range and amenities.... that is until or unless Tesla decides to change something up. Is $50K LR3 with nicer roof, seats, stereo also a "souped up golf cart"?

You come across as someone who is insecure that there will be a much less expensive version of the car you bought available fairly soon that will be highly similar to it.

Maybe you should read the manual where it points out what the differences are. No power mirrors, no centre console with USB ports, no heated seats, short range battery, no premium stereo or LTE connectivity, cloth seats AND no glass roof, and that's just off the top of my head. No glass roof alone makes it completely unappealing to me.

Either way you completely missed the point here. I'm saying ALL premium car companies charge extra for certain colours of paint, it's completely standard practice. The $35,000 model has nothing to do with this, because the price increase on the red is on the currently available models now. I'm not the one that even brought up the $35,000 model, the other guy did, which has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion as it's pure speculation. No one even knows if the $35,000 will come in all the same colours, so what does the price increase on red on the currently available models have anything to do with a $35,000 one?

I personally consider Tesla a premium brand, but the problem is you get people like that other guy that only have a budget for the $35,000 one but then expect to get all the benefits of the more expensive models included. Like honestly, they already charged extra for red on the current models, but you're upset that they aren't including it for free on the $35,000 one? Makes no sense.

And virtually identical other than range and amenities? So basically everything as that's kind of a lot lol.

 

[SigNC]

My Econ speciality was game theory and I am having a hard time seeing where Tesla is going!
View attachment 335330

Nash equilibrium. They get more money and your wallet gets easier to carry.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Elon has stated that the paint booth is a bottle neck in production. If they can crank out 500 more cars a week by reducing the number of time consuming red cars, that may be the point.

Setting up an additional paint booth in California is a huge deal. California regulations make paint cars here a huge pain in the neck for manufactureres.

I imagine that Tesla will move as much production to Gigafactory as soon as possible.

Tesla red paint has a special pigmented clear coat that gives it that high quality deep shine and luster.

 

[ZeApelido]

It's understandable, but I feel sorry for people hoping for red. I have it (for $1000) and it's gorgeous. But I wouldn't pay $2500 for it.

 

[JPP]

Kind of interesting---in February of 2013 I ordered my MCR S85 sight unseen, as Elon had not yet found a red 'that did not suck' (yes, direct quote). I took delivery in May 2013 (one of the first out of the factory). Paint looked pretty good from the old paint shop, but still needed quite a bit of correction by Joe T (now @ OCDetailing). I am picking up my P3D+ MCR next Monday 9/24 @ Fremont, and Joe is accompanying me to scrutinize the paint, fit & finish. We will see what the expert says.....

 

[Aieukl378]

the early adopters already have their cars.

I think we're all early adopters...have you looked around you?(as in...they are all ICE everywhere)

 

[Trevor B]

I hate to break it to you but $35K Model 3 and $50K LR Model 3 are virtually identical other than range and amenities.... that is until or unless Tesla decides to change something up. Is $50K LR3 with nicer roof, seats, stereo also a "souped up golf cart"?

You come across as someone who is insecure that there will be a much less expensive version of the car you bought available fairly soon that will be highly similar to it.

Huh? RTFM

 

[voip-ninja]

Huh? RTFM

I think you’re the one who is confused. The only difference will purportedly be range and amenities.

Amenities are better seats, center storage cover, glass roof, better stereo.

 

[richrootes]

I hope they vote to bring back plain old White - and a few other non metallic colours

Multi coat this and that must take so much longer to paint.....

 

[Shizzrock]

It's understandable, but I feel sorry for people hoping for red. I have it (for $1000) and it's gorgeous. But I wouldn't pay $2500 for it.

Why you gotta rub it in?!

 

[Barklikeadog]

$35,000 car? Love to see a link to where you can buy the Model 3 for $35,000 considering mine came to $96,580 CAD after taxes and delivery. The $35,000 doesn't even exist yet, and last time I checked, the $35,000 version is far from a luxury car, more like a souped up golf cart since it's missing pretty much everything that makes the Model 3 so nice. You lost me with the $35,000 as you might as well have said the Model Y if you're going to talk about something that doesn't even exist and can't even be ordered yet. For all you know the $35,000 might come in black only and nothing else.

Perhaps you should visit BMW or Mercedes website and see what paint colours are included for free and what you get for an upgrade. People on these forums all act like they have never bought a nice car before when this is completely common practice. Don't want to pay extra for it? Then get black, it's not hard.

Where can you buy one? Exactly. maybe you should go back and watch the Musk Model 3 reveal where he says $35,000 about 50 times. People that spend $60k on an Eclass or bmw already have their Model 3 and don't sweat paying for paint. But there are a -lot- of people still out there who would typically spend 20-30 grand on a sedan and are going over budget on this one. They need that tax credit and they aren't excited about paying $2500 for paint. 96k? heh. I just want to see the $35,000 promise filled.

 

[ℬête Noire]

Why you gotta rub it in?!

You know why, it feeeeels sooo goooood. :E

P.S. No, I don't have MCR. Come midnight Friday I've got something better, the colour you can't buy at any price.

 

[mike123abc]

The other issue is that these multicoat colors are expected in luxury cars. When the current starting price of the car is 50k+ (including delivery) you are considered a luxury car by most people. Multicoat unique paints are supposed to be hard to do, hence reserved for luxury cars. When the 35k car is finally released, perhaps the paint issue would be an issue, now it is really just inadequate manufacturing ability on Tesla's part. Say what you want, but Tesla has chosen to compete in the luxury car segment.