Refused delivery Fri 4/20 :/

[ACA Man]

Tesla needs to be held accountable for their lack of QC in the push for more deliveries.

By refusing delivery, one is actually doing Tesla a favor in the long run by notifying them of their business practices.

 

[MistaEV]

I was just providing my view point that - if you step back and look at it the big picture, we all are really NOT inspecting the car's core function which is under the hood. We are all taking a chance there, but focusing on the visual cosmetic stuff, some of those are easily fixable and some of them are not.

Some of us also lack the education and/or knowledge to effectively examine the car in that level of detail. As such, we focus on what we can see and understand, relying on Tesla to stand by their worksmanship for the rest. Paint issues and scratches can be blamed on the consumer easily enough post-delivery, but the mechanical and electronics are a bit harder to pawn off.

 

[jimmyjohn]

... By refusing delivery, one is actually doing Tesla a favor in the long run by notifying them of their business practices ...

+1 This DOES help a company.

It's tough love, but, if you want the company to succeed... hold them to that which you wish them to aspire.

 

[xcat]

I'm expecting perfection as this will be the most I've ever spent on a vehicle. I will advise the OA in advance that if the car's not perfect, I will refuse delivery and do not intend on signing or funding anything prior to delivery inspection.

 

[SMAlset]

Of course. Each one handles situations differently, because their priorities differ, and I realize I am in the minority.

I was just providing my view point that - if you step back and look at it the big picture, we all are really NOT inspecting the car's core function which is under the hood. We are all taking a chance there, but focusing on the visual cosmetic stuff, some of those are easily fixable and some of them are not.....

I get what Electroman is saying and it's a valid point for many I would think. If one is planning on getting their car wrapped to help prevent such scratches in the future, your detailer is going to start off by doing corrective paint work on it. On our car we had one light scratch on the rear quarter that we didn't notice at pick up but he saw, but for sure the second more noticeable one our detailer spotted at the wheel well area was deeper and our detailer said looked like a rock scratch from the road--a 5 mile drive from our Telsa Store to the detailer. Both spots were corrected and Xpel Ultimate film applied and honestly we couldn't tell where either scratch was afterward. We had a great detailer and we were glad our car was now paint protected and we could drive it home and enjoy it which we've been doing for the past year. And by the way our MS was probably 3 times the cost of our most expensive car so I do understand the "most expensive car I've ever bought" rationale.

In the end, for us, letting our detailer prep the car for film was a great solution and left us with no regrets. Everyone needs to decide for themselves how to handle the scratches in life but sometimes the easiest path going forward is the one that will make you the happiest. I doubt anyone at Tesla intentionally scratchs the cars prior to delivery and Tesla will work with your and make it right. Nothing in life is perfect and what matters is that Tesla will stand behind their cars. That's the most you can ask of any manufacturer. If it's really minor damage I can't imagine refusing the first one, waiting for a second car to be delivered and then let's say your first day with it someone scratches your door opening theirs. What have you really gained in the end? You know the scratch is coming down the road especially if you don't put film on so not sure what people think they achieve by approaching this by rejecting a car. Now if there's some bigger issue that's something different and at times refusing the car is the best way to go. Anyway that's how our car situation went and my thoughts on scratches at delivery.

 

[jopa180]

Thanks @Trips @SMAlset @TaoJones @Shygar @ShawnA @geometro @insaneoctane @MistaEV and other for your support/understanding!

No updates from our DS yet (Now >72h since refusing delivery and >24 after contacting our DS to be sure he was in the loop), but will keep you all posted. @steven415 I don't think this issue is specific to our DS, so sharing his name does not seem productive. On delivery day, there are multiple people who could have identified the problem and spoken with us, and I'm not even sure our DS personally saw the car (he communicated with us via phone/email to set up the delivery appointment). Really more of a systems issue that there wasn't a mechanism to catch and deal with this.

@Electroman I really wish I had a picture of the scratch/gouge, cause I think you would better understand the significance of the "cosmetic" issue. No way that simple buffing or touch up paint would fix adequately. I suspect some degree of bodywork will need to be done, and one significant downside I considered was that Tesla's motivation to resolve the issue in a timely manner would likely be lower had they already made the sale. Not to mention that immediately bringing the car to service is not the experience I want to have with ANY new vehicle. The lack of acknowledgement/awareness of an obvious "cosmetic" defect does not inspire confidence about QC around potentially more significant issues including those related to the car's core function.

Again, not all people would have refused delivery, but the customer service experience would have been much better had the issue been identified, acknowledged, and communicated to me as soon as it was recognized (ideally before I arrived for delivery). I would be much more confident in Tesla had they let me know about the problem, how it could be addressed, and the approximate timeline. Then I could have decided whether to proceed with purchase/get a loaner straight away, proceed with purchase and schedule service myself, or have Tesla fix the car to new specifications prior to taking delivery...or perhaps even been given the option of being assigned a new VIN.

More to come...

 

[ls7corvete]

Thanks @Trips @SMAlset @TaoJones @Shygar @ShawnA @geometro @insaneoctane @MistaEV and other for your support/understanding!

No updates from our DS yet (Now >72h since refusing delivery and >24 after contacting our DS to be sure he was in the loop), but will keep you all posted. @steven415 I don't think this issue is specific to our DS, so sharing his name does not seem productive. On delivery day, there are multiple people who could have identified the problem and spoken with us, and I'm not even sure our DS personally saw the car (he communicated with us via phone/email to set up the delivery appointment). Really more of a systems issue that there wasn't a mechanism to catch and deal with this.

@Electroman I really wish I had a picture of the scratch/gouge, cause I think you would better understand the significance of the "cosmetic" issue. No way that simple buffing or touch up paint would fix adequately. I suspect some degree of bodywork will need to be done, and one significant downside I considered was that Tesla's motivation to resolve the issue in a timely manner would likely be lower had they already made the sale. Not to mention that immediately bringing the car to service is not the experience I want to have with ANY new vehicle. The lack of acknowledgement/awareness of an obvious "cosmetic" defect does not inspire confidence about QC around potentially more significant issues including those related to the car's core function.

Again, not all people would have refused delivery, but the customer service experience would have been much better had the issue been identified, acknowledged, and communicated to me as soon as it was recognized (ideally before I arrived for delivery). I would be much more confident in Tesla had they let me know about the problem, how it could be addressed, and the approximate timeline. Then I could have decided whether to proceed with purchase/get a loaner straight away, proceed with purchase and schedule service myself, or have Tesla fix the car to new specifications prior to taking delivery...or perhaps even been given the option of being assigned a new VIN.

More to come...

Keep us updated, sounds frustrating. I keep reading stories like this and I imagine most of these come down to a third party (transport service, third party body shop, etc). I sure hope Tesla goes after these third parties to pay for their damage! Obviously who ever scratched your car knows they did it, what kind of person does that and does not take responsibility....

 

[MistaEV]

I would offer that ultimately, perception is reality. My wife was injured a while back and she described the scene as "blood everywhere". I came to her aid and while her wound required 9 staples to close, I would not qualify the scene as being bloody as her hair caught much of the blood. However, I also did not discount her perception because for her, that was pretty bloody.

I say that to say this; while Electroman and SMAlset make good points, I consider the OP's point valid as well. The OP felt it was bad enough to refuse it. Personally I will be focusing more on things that require bodywork such as seam issues and such. Those I will reject a car for. Paint for me is not that bad as long as there is not a 2+ shade color difference over a large area after they fix it. That is harder to overlook.

As for wrapping the car, I need to find a place out here in NOVA.

 

[MistaEV]

and one significant downside I considered was that Tesla's motivation to resolve the issue in a timely manner would likely be lower had they already made the sale. Not to mention that immediately bringing the car to service is not the experience I want to have with ANY new vehicle.

This is a good point. Having no prior personal experience with Tesla, and in particular my local SC, this would be my concern as well with fixes that are needed. My Jeep dealer is the only example I have of recent note and after the sale, the dealership had little motivation to care, and it showed each time we went in for service.

 

[SMAlset]

I would offer that ultimately, perception is reality. My wife was injured a while back and she described the scene as "blood everywhere". I came to her aid and while her wound required 9 staples to close, I would not qualify the scene as being bloody as her hair caught much of the blood. However, I also did not discount her perception because for her, that was pretty bloody.

I say that to say this; while Electroman and SMAlset make good points, I consider the OP's point valid as well. The OP felt it was bad enough to refuse it. Personally I will be focusing more on things that require bodywork such as seam issues and such. Those I will reject a car for. Paint for me is not that bad as long as there is not a 2+ shade color difference over a large area after they fix it. That is harder to overlook.

As for wrapping the car, I need to find a place out here in NOVA.

And @Electroman and I both stated that sometimes the situation can't easily be resolved so we do understand @jopa180's viewpoint since he's the one able to have seen the issue. Hopefully my experience and getting one's car wrapped will give someone some additional insight into what happens at the detailers when going that route and let them not fret over small scratches. A good detailer can also handle deep scratches too.*

Suggestion for anyone planning or considering wrapping your car, find who you will use in advance and line up a tentative date appointment with them as soon as possible. Believe we gave our detailer a partial deposit to hold our place in line and then he asked that as soon as we heard from Tesla about our delivery being scheduled to call him to firm up a date and time so that we could get in straight from our actual delivery. We really didn't want to drive the car around and have more road scratches for him to deal with.

In fact our friend just picked up his Model 3 last weekend and decided to get it wrapped now that he has it. Gave him two good referrals to check out and I know the first one said they were booked until mid summer already. Said they were working on a half dozen Teslas right now. We're near the factory and I suspect there are a lot of new Model 3s now on the road after these last few production pushes, and actually we've seen a lot of new Model S/Xs as well, so people will have a harder time getting an appointment especially with a highly recommend detailer.

*check out this guy's thread on his car's scratches. He posted two photos (#8, #12) of before and after. 3 year old took a rock and...

 

[juanmedina]

pictures or it didn't happen...

 

[azred]

You know what else is crazy? Charging us $925 for a “delivery / destination fee” when we are picking it up from the factory. They literally moved the car less than a mile.
They should have all cars QC’d to the nines.

People have been complaining about these fees for as long as autos have been sold. Just curious what you would propose. If you should pay zero, I assume those of us in Arizona should pay no more than 25% of the fee charged to customers on the East Coast?

 

[WileyTheMan]

Just an FYI for those that are concerned about delivery defects, especially in Fremont. I would say that issues like this are not the norm. I picked mine up last weekend and scrutinized it pretty well and I found it to be flawless. The handful of people I've spoken to that have these cars report no quality issues, and those who are generally happy with their cars do not post on forums.

A side note: I am certain the OP would have gotten a loaner from a service center if (s)he took delivery with the defect.

 

[rsomrek]

People have been complaining about these fees for as long as autos have been sold. Just curious what you would propose. If you should pay zero, I assume those of us in Arizona should pay no more than 25% of the fee charged to customers on the East Coast?

Here's a piece on the Kelly Blue Book site that explains the fee and its history. Interestingly, it's federally mandated to be "equalized" regardless of whether you pick the car up at the factory or ship it across the country.

 

[insaneoctane]

Because Tesla is a different company without dealers, the process for buying your new car is different. There is no "lot" to choose your car from. In the dealer model, you would have a few choices:

• Choose another car (immediately!)
• Choose the scratched car and ask for a discount
• Choose the scratched car and ask if they would fix it
• Choose the scratched car and ask if they would fix it AND ask for a discount
• Walk away and buy nothing

I don't see Telsa offering discounts very often, but with the dealer model it seems far more likely. The first option potentially gives you a brand new car immediately with the dealer model, whereas if you choose to refuse delivery and ask for another VIN you'll be waiting weeks (months?). Then you get to rinse and repeat! Everyone is different, but if the scratch requires repaint, I personally wouldn't be interested in anything but the first option for my $60K AND it would really suck waiting. While these reports do not appear to be happening excessively, they are still happening. If Tesla is going to stick with their dealer-less business model, they should ratchet their quality up and avoid these self-inflicted reputation sabotages. Many of us have already waited a LONG time, they need to invest some of the money they've saved by eliminating the dealer on better QA. Find this stuff at the factory, give me a new VIN immediately when this is discovered and go after the root cause and eliminate/reduce the problem. Spoken as a stock holder AND as someone waiting for his Model 3....

 

[jasonmason]

Just an FYI for those that are concerned about delivery defects, especially in Fremont. I would say that issues like this are not the norm. I picked mine up last weekend and scrutinized it pretty well and I found it to be flawless. The handful of people I've spoken to that have these cars report no quality issues, and those who are generally happy with their cars do not post on forums.

A side note: I am certain the OP would have gotten a loaner from a service center if (s)he took delivery with the defect.

my car is at the SC center to fix some panel gaps near the trunk. Just got a call today that they replaced my back window but the trunk still looks misaligned so they are sending it the the body shop. Another 2-3 weeks wait! Car only has 600 miles. At least I'm driving a P85+ in the meantime with free supercharging. So it's a good thing you refused delivery.

 

[Electroman]

People have been complaining about these fees for as long as autos have been sold. Just curious what you would propose. If you should pay zero, I assume those of us in Arizona should pay no more than 25% of the fee charged to customers on the East Coast?

delivering a product to a customer, is one of the many standard expenses to run the business. It is no different from buying aluminum for your car, or paying for electricity for running your machines, or paying for your employees. Cost should be built into the overall pricing model. Tacking on that delivery charge separately sounds silly.

i remember that my son's day care would charge $100 separately for stationery expenses, like crayons and color markers and white board markers and such. I thought that was silly. These are basic expenses for any child care or educational institution. So the cost of these should be built into and averaged out to the monthly fees per child they charge. So what next? separate charge for building lease? electricity?

 

[d21mike]

I am from the LA area and flew to Fremont to pick up my MS at the end of Sept. 2017. The staging area for your car is not well lit with natural light. They have spot type lighting so not great for checking out the car. I took a lot of pictures just in case I missed something. My car was fine. My complaint which I take some responsibility is that I felt rushed. I had seen some delivery youtube videos where the delivery person went thru a lot of details. My guy seemed to want me to take delivery quickly. Also, I was asked to sign all papers before I even saw the car which I did. I felt I knew a lot about the car before I picked it up mainly though youtube. But the strange thing I did not expect was how to charge it. I watched on youtube but I did not notice how they removed the charge cable. I had an issue with it and had to ask other owners at the supercharger for help. I.E. Must have car unlocked and see the WHITE ring when you push the button.

To end on a good note. I love this car.

 

[MistaEV]

...Cost should be built into the overall pricing model. Tacking on that delivery charge separately sounds silly.
i remember that my son's day care would charge $100 separately for stationery expenses, like crayons and color markers and white board markers and such. I thought that was silly. These are basic expenses for any child care or educational institution. So the cost of these should be built into and averaged out to fees per child they charge. So what next? separate charge for building lease? electricity?

The thing that gets me about daycares is that they itemized everything. At one place (which has been in the news), the tuition only covered enrollment. No food, supplies, activities, or other stuff were included and given the price of $1280 per month for my son (who was a neeborn/infant at the time), that didn't track. On top of that, they did not engage the infants enough. They kept them in the crib even when the child was awake.

Our current daycare charges the same $1280 for both of my kids even when my daughter was a newborn/infant. The provider's pricing model accounted for that. That said I think that even if the pricing model did account for that, they would have to show it separately on the bill of sale to ensure the federal gov't could tell that was applied appropriately. I wonder if this standardized fee was in response to dealers marking that part up sky high for more profit; KBB does not address this.

 

[mos6507]

This is more common than people think. The only Model 3 I've seen up close was a white car in Dedham, MA and it had a horizontal scratch on the passenger rear quarterpanel. I think the handling of these cars from the factory to its final destination is seriously sloppy.