Arthur Tucker
Noob Member
Supercharging puts more wear on the battery. And at least I'd like to just have my car charge overnight and not have to stop somewhere before going home and/or moving my car late at night when it's done charging.
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Renter seeking charging for upcoming Model 3
- Thread starter treesandmore
- Start date
Shock-On-T
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Make it seem like no big deal. Use the words:
"Is it OK if I get an extra power outlet in the garage? I'm thinking about getting an electric car."
If you call it an outlet they'll think it's no biggie, and that's technically all the charger is.
I've installed two, both a 3 phase and an old single phase. They are basically just a giant adapter, with a bit of smarts inside.
I'm not American so not sure exactly what the tenant/landlord relationship is there, but if it's anything like Australia the landlord really doesn't care as much as you might think, especially if it's an investment property. So long as the rent keeps rolling in and they don't have to fix anything they'll be happy campers. Obviously if it's the old family home and they are renting it out for a few years that would be different.
A house would be best, and remember your installation will be cheaper if the garage is close to the meter box.
Shock-On-T
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So much more convenient charging at home, and it's cheaper.
I'm surprised that in four pages nobody has mentioned the obvious point... M3 SR can't charge with more than 32A. And if memory serves me LR caps out at 48A (there was some confusion because the press kit cited charge times for 40A, but there were some reports later than the charger supports somewhat higher current than that).
And really, how much do you drive per day? Because 120V 15A is something like 7 miles per hour of charging. I know faster charging would be nice, but is it really that important?
I'm not getting it. To me that reads like "Ale bonfires" or "Ale burns" (Öl = ale, "Brennur" = bonfires, he/she/it/you burn(s)).
And really, how much do you drive per day? Because 120V 15A is something like 7 miles per hour of charging. I know faster charging would be nice, but is it really that important?
I'm not getting it. To me that reads like "Ale bonfires" or "Ale burns" (Öl = ale, "Brennur" = bonfires, he/she/it/you burn(s)).
SpiceWare
Member
Should be faster for the 3, but probably not 7mph...
We know the LR Model 3 gets 37mph at 240 volt 40 amps, so the 3mph for the Model S/X would be 3*37/25 = 4.4 mph for the 3. Bump that up to a 120 volt 20 amp outlet and that'd be 4*37/25 = 5.9 mph.
We know the LR Model 3 gets 37mph at 240 volt 40 amps, so the 3mph for the Model S/X would be 3*37/25 = 4.4 mph for the 3. Bump that up to a 120 volt 20 amp outlet and that'd be 4*37/25 = 5.9 mph.
Model 3 SR gets 30 miles per hour on 240V 32A according to the Model 3 Press Kit, from which all of these articles get their info. 30 * (15 / 32) * (120 / 240) ~= 7. That's assuming that your voltage is actually 120V (average is a touch less) and that you can actually draw 15A. This generally requires bathroom, garage or kitchen outlets; "15A" sockets generally don't allow for more than 12A sustained (80% limitation), but kitchen, bathroom and garage outlets are generally on 20A breakers which allow for 16A sustained. Check your breaker box if you want to be sure.
Wiring is much simpler over here. A 10A socket is actually rated for 10A continuous. All home wiring is single phase and the same voltage (nominal 230V). Etc.
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SpiceWare
Member
I suspect the difference between the 5.9 I calculated for the 20amp outlet, and the 7 you calculated, are due to the overhead of the charger itself.
I don't follow your calculation. Mine includes the charger because the Tesla press kit includes the charger - that's miles range per hour charging, straight from the horse's mouth, simply linearly scaled for current and voltage.
The reason that the S/X adapter is lower is because A) S and X are bigger energy consumers, particularly the X, and B) they're talking about only drawing at 12A, but most kitchen, bathroom and garage sockets allow up to 16A continuous (I chose 15A to account for an assumed undervoltage)
Model 3 LR comes in at slightly slower charging than Model 3 SR, as would be expected. Its not a major difference, 7,03 mph vs. 6,94 mph.
SpiceWare
Member
I looked at the mph number for the S/X on the 240 volt connector as the starting point:
which gives me the 37/25 part of the equation.
Then the mph numbers for the 120 volt connectors:
So the 15 amp would be:
3 * 37/25 = 4.4mph
while the 20 amp would be:
4 * 37/25 = 5.9mph
which gives me the 37/25 part of the equation.
Then the mph numbers for the 120 volt connectors:
So the 15 amp would be:
3 * 37/25 = 4.4mph
while the 20 amp would be:
4 * 37/25 = 5.9mph
The S/X 240V connector doesn't even come into play. Tesla explicitly says in the press kit how fast the Model 3 charges on 240V/32A. There's no ambiguity.
If you want the answer to why you're coming in with low numbers, it's because that's an adapter for a NEMA 14-30 but you can't actually draw 30 amps from a 14-30 continuously, the max is 24A because of the 80% rule. So the M3 Press Kit's figure of 30mi @ 240V/32A represents 32/24=133% as much power relative to the NEMA 14-30 adapter. The NEMA 14-50 can likewise provide no more than 40A continuous, meaning the M3 example is for 80% as much power. Versus the 5-15 adapter, they cite 12A, so the M3 press kit figure is 32/12=266% the current, and at double the voltage, 533% the power.
If we scale the figures on that page by these percents, we find that the "S/X" (which don't actually get the same range per hour, but we'll ignore that) get a nominal 133%*16=21,3mi, 80%*25=20mi, and 16mi, respectively. The press kit's citing M3 as getting 30 miles at 240V/32A corresponds well to the efficiency difference between M3 and MS / MX.
In the latter case, it comes in a bit under the efficiency difference, and I think I can guess why - at such low powers, the fraction of the energy taken up by parasitic draw becomes more significant. But since they're charging at 12A, when you can actually charge at 16A from kitchen/bathroom/garage sockets, the fraction of energy taken up by parasitic draw will be reduced. On the other hand, I was only crediting 15A draw, when technically you're perfectly fine to draw 16A.
Maybe assuming 5.5 - 6mph would be better due to parasitic losses at low charge powers.
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SpiceWare
Member
The S/X 240V 40amp rate gives us something to compare directly with the LR 3's 240V rate. I could have used the base 3's 32amp limit, but I don't see how many mph 32amp would add to the S/X.
No major thing though, these are all guestimates until actual results are published.
No major thing though, these are all guestimates until actual results are published.
In a Model S, and on a 15A (not 20A, which most kitchen, bathroom, and garage sockets are), 3 mph is indeed what you'd expect. ~70% the efficiency, and 75% of the the power available.
This is one of the main reasons that I like efficient EVs: you can charge faster from weaker power sources. Aptera would have been a dream on a NEMA 5-15 or 5-20, and just crazy-fast up here. MS and MX are among the least efficient EVs on the market (not due to bad design, per se, but because they're roomy and loaded with long-range batteries, while most competing EVs are rather small, and their weight kept down by having only short-range batteries)
K-MTG
Sunshade Captain of TMC
I have two EV's currently... the model X and ELR.
The model x wall connector is on 100 amps while the ELR is on 32 amps. Should I upgrade to the new wall connector that supports share charging...so get two of them and I can sell my current wall connector to someone
The model x wall connector is on 100 amps while the ELR is on 32 amps. Should I upgrade to the new wall connector that supports share charging...so get two of them and I can sell my current wall connector to someone
Check your breaker box and see what breaker that circuit is on. Odds are reasonable that it's 20A. That's most common in the US, because people run power tools and the like in their garage. No guarantees of course. Technically you're supposed to use one of those hybrid 5-15/20 sockets with a 20A breaker, but it's not rare to see normal 5-15s wired up to a 20A breaker. BTW, if it is only 15A, switching out a breaker is really easy. Your wiring should technically support over 30A (although you wouldn't actually want to put such high loads on it sustained!)
ED: Looks like Tesla's 5-20 adapter (if you want to use it) uses the horizontal neutral, to make sure that your socket is setup for 20A. So if you only have a 15A you may need to have the socket swapped out as well. Or just use an adapter if you're not picky.....
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