Replace 6-30 Outlet with 14-30 (without Neutral Connected)

[mswlogo]

I reused the old breaker.

The new panel had everything but the breaker itself.

I told the seller what I was doing so he could check some things before buying. Part of the deal was he didn’t ship the cabinet to save on packing and shipping and I didn’t need it.

Everything looked identical except the buss bars themselves. Some parts were still aluminum.

 

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Finally got my 3rd installation done.

I set this up for 40 Amp. I was getting 34 miles/hr.

I will probably rarely use it, even though it's my best installation, because this is the only location it won't be free for me.

I wanted it set up so it could not be seen from road/driveway (3rd picture you can see cable, behind post nobody will know what it is).

And I want ed to reach past pavers because I put stakes in to block snow plow from tearing up pavers.

It all worked out pretty good. I can normally drive in or back in. But with Stakes up I'll have to back in.

You can I have one stake in, in the second photo.

Directions on wall connector not the best. And those little wires from the rear block to the internal block were JUST long enough, like to the mm.
It's also really hard to know if you have the wires seated all the way in on the internal block when you tighten it down, you are completely blind.

 

[eprosenx]

Finally got my 3rd installation done.

I set this up for 40 Amp. I was getting 34 miles/hr.

I will probably rarely use it, even though it's my best installation, because this is the only location it won't be free for me.

I wanted it set up so it could not be seen from road/driveway (3rd picture you can see cable, behind post nobody will know what it is).

And I want ed to reach past pavers because I put stakes in to block snow plow from tearing up pavers.

It all worked out pretty good. I can normally drive in or back in. But with Stakes up I'll have to back in.

You can I have one stake in, in the second photo.

Directions on wall connector not the best. And those little wires from the rear block to the internal block were JUST long enough, like to the mm.
It's also really hard to know if you have the wires seated all the way in on the internal block when you tighten it down, you are completely blind.

Nice! What gauge wire did you use? I assume you did a 50a breaker and 40a continuous charging rating?

How come it won’t be free? Is this at a location you frequent but don’t own? Did you have to pay for the wall connector? Or did Tesla provide it as part of destination charging? (seems if you did the install for them they should comp you some free charging!)

The wall connector sure is nice isn’t it? Maybe the install instructions and mechanical bits of the install leave a little to be desired, but functionality wise it is great!

 

[mswlogo]

Nice! What gauge wire did you use? I assume you did a 50a breaker and 40a continuous charging rating?

How come it won’t be free? Is this at a location you frequent but don’t own? Did you have to pay for the wall connector? Or did Tesla provide it as part of destination charging? (seems if you did the install for them they should comp you some free charging!)

The wall connector sure is nice isn’t it? Maybe the install instructions and mechanical bits of the install leave a little to be desired, but functionality wise it is great!

8-2 40A breaker. Unit is set to 40A which will pull 32A (setting 6).

At my primary home I have excess solar (so no additional cost, use it or lose it) And Supercharging is free for life. This install I have to pay $.23 kWh.

Superchargers exist on the way to this install and on the way back. So I will try to use it only when I have to. Like if superchargers are full and they might be during peak season. Depends on time.

No garage and it can get damn cold. So I didn’t want to depend on say 120V outlet and didn’t want to leave UMC outside. Even though it’s under a covered porch. And I didn’t want to take out the one dedicated to the car.

 

[hammick]

Here is what I ended up doing for our '21 MY that we recently brought home. I already had a 120v 30a RV plug that I installed years ago. We no longer have an RV. I used the 10-2 wire that was already there and and installed a NEMA 14-30r plug on a 30a 2 pole 250v breaker. I marked the white (neutral) wire with a red sharpie since it is now a hot leg. I put some labels at the outlet so it is clear it is for Tesla charging only and does not have a neutral connected. Nobody has touched this outlet in the 10 years since I installed it other than me. I may put a padlock on it to be extra safe. When we move I will remove everything since it was not installed by a licensed electrician or code inspected. Even though this does not meet code it is 100% safe for our application IMHO.

24a charging at 240v with the mobile charger is more than enough for us. I have her car set to charge to 65% by 5:00 am. The MY is my wife's daily driver and she averages less than 30 miles a day.

 

[mswlogo]

If you want to do things right change the breaker to a GFCI. It’s now code. Easy peasy to change.

 

[Rocky_H]

I already had a 120v 30a RV plug that I installed years ago. We no longer have an RV. I used the 10-2 wire that was already there and and installed a ...

Ah, cool. That's nice when you can convert something you already have there from a 120V to a 240V outlet easily. The end of that sentence would be a 6-30 outlet.

NEMA 14-30r plug [...] Even though this does not meet code

If you want to do things right change the breaker to a GFCI. It’s now code. Easy peasy to change.

Well, no, the breaker isn't the only problem. The 14-30 needs four wires, which are not all there. That outlet has a disconnected neutral. The 6-30 would be the real, code-compliant way.
But anyway, you acknowledged that it's not quite to code but is what you want to go with. However, very well done on how clearly you marked that outlet, about it not having a neutral. This is more for commentary for people who may be reading about this and also want to try to convert an existing TT-30.

 

[mswlogo]

Ah, cool. That's nice when you can convert something you already have there from a 120V to a 240V outlet easily. The end of that sentence would be a 6-30 outlet.


Well, no, the breaker isn't the only problem. The 14-30 needs four wires, which are not all there. That outlet has a disconnected neutral. The 6-30 would be the real, code-compliant way.
But anyway, you acknowledged that it's not quite to code but is what you want to go with. However, very well done on how clearly you marked that outlet, about it not having a neutral. This is more for commentary for people who may be reading about this and also want to try to convert an existing TT-30.

I didn’t catch that. But he should still put a GFCI in. You don’t put a GFCI in because someone tells you. You put them in because it’s safer. And it will still provide added safety without the neutral.

You can put a 6-30 in there and bring it up to code (with GFCI). Below is a very good price and will still have the temperature monitor in the plug.

NEMA 6-30 Adapter for Tesla Model S/X/3/Y Gen 2 – EVSE Adapters

 

[hammick]

Ah, cool. That's nice when you can convert something you already have there from a 120V to a 240V outlet easily. The end of that sentence would be a 6-30 outlet.


Well, no, the breaker isn't the only problem. The 14-30 needs four wires, which are not all there. That outlet has a disconnected neutral. The 6-30 would be the real, code-compliant way.
But anyway, you acknowledged that it's not quite to code but is what you want to go with. However, very well done on how clearly you marked that outlet, about it not having a neutral. This is more for commentary for people who may be reading about this and also want to try to convert an existing TT-30.

Yes I thought about the 6-30 outlet but I decided to go the 14-30 route because I will most likely run the correct wire this winter. My panel is right behind the wall and it's only about 5' of wire at most. Then I could hook up an RV if needed with an adapter. Actually I might oversize the wire in case I want a 60a circuit down the road for our retirement 5th wheel.

I will have to read the code but I think the GFCI requirement is for laundry areas. 120v outlets in garages require GFCI. Not sure about a 14-30 for EV charging.

 

[hammick]

I didn’t catch that. But he should still put a GFCI in. You don’t put a GFCI in because someone tells you. You put them in because it’s safer. And it will still provide added safety without the neutral.

You can put a 6-30 in there and bring it up to code (with GFCI). Below is a very good price and will still have the temperature monitor in the plug.

NEMA 6-30 Adapter for Tesla Model S/X/3/Y Gen 2 – EVSE Adapters

I'd rather put the $100 that a 30a 250v GFCI breaker costs towards the Wall Charger or aftermarket charger that can be hardwired. I'm assuming a GFCI breaker is not required for hardwired installs.

 

[mswlogo]

I'd rather put the $100 that a 30a 250v GFCI breaker costs towards the Wall Charger or aftermarket charger that can be hardwired. I'm assuming a GFCI breaker is not required for hardwired installs.

Totally agree !! But I wasn’t gonna go down that path You are correct GFCI is not required for hardware installs.

 

[hammick]

Totally agree !! But I wasn’t gonna go down that path You are correct GFCI is not required for hardware installs.

BTW I appreciate all the good advice from everyone. I really am a safety nazi even though I will violate codes when I believe it is 100% safe for my application. And like I said before when and if we move the entire circuit would be removed prior to sale.

 

[mswlogo]

BTW I appreciate all the good advice from everyone. I really am a safety nazi even though I will violate codes when I believe it is 100% safe for my application. And like I said before when and if we move the entire circuit would be removed prior to sale.

Sorry, but statements like this is proof you don’t understand safety. So what if something happens to you? Oh, if you’re not around it doesn’t matter, right? You can’t control the future, so build things that don’t depend on your actions to make it right for the next guy. Oh you didn’t think of that? Safety conscious people do. People that write the code and enforce it, that’s how they think.

But you did save a few hundred $$$. Someone made an excellent point about a Wall Connector. And if you are around when your family departs that home you can take it with you. If not, it’s left in a safe up to code state.

 

[hammick]

Sorry, but statements like this is proof you don’t understand safety. So what if something happens to you? Oh, if you’re not around it doesn’t matter, right? You can’t control the future, so build things that don’t depend on your actions to make it right for the next guy. Oh you didn’t think of that? Safety conscious people do. People that write the code and enforce it, that’s how they think.

But you did save a few hundred $$$. Someone made an excellent point about a Wall Connector. And if you are around when your family departs that home you can take it with you. If not, it’s left in a safe up to code state.

Man I hope you get some help.

 

[Rocky_H]

I will have to read the code but I think the GFCI requirement is for laundry areas. 120v outlets in garages require GFCI. Not sure about a 14-30 for EV charging.

That's general purpose outlet conditions from how things used to be. In the 2017 edition of NEC, they added a whole lot of stuff in the section 625 about EV charging. And this annoying provision they put in is that ANY outlet being installed for the purpose of EV charging MUST have a GFCI breaker.

That's kind of weird, because you could have a standard 14-50 outlet, and it could be either up to code or not up to code, depending on the state of mind of what someone is INTENDING to plug into it. That is stupid. Code should be clear and never based on someone's intention. If it's dangerous to plug an EV into it, it's also dangerous to plug an RV into it.

I'm assuming a GFCI breaker is not required for hardwired installs.

And yes, hardwired is exempt from that GFCI breaker requirement.

 

[mswlogo]

Yes I thought about the 6-30 outlet but I decided to go the 14-30 route because I will most likely run the correct wire this winter. My panel is right behind the wall and it's only about 5' of wire at most. Then I could hook up an RV if needed with an adapter. Actually I might oversize the wire in case I want a 60a circuit down the road for our retirement 5th wheel.

I will have to read the code but I think the GFCI requirement is for laundry areas. 120v outlets in garages require GFCI. Not sure about a 14-30 for EV charging.

No, GFCI is required for an EV Wall OUTLET. In the past Dryers did not require GFCI and now they do.

I always find it ironic that if folks think they can “get away” with it, then they are good. I put GFCI in any areas that can get wet. It’s a fantastic, cheap, continuous fault monitor. Long before they decided to make it code. Because it was common sense. Pool, Garage, Outdoors, Kitchen, Bath. Basically the only room I don’t, is bedrooms and living room. Any place there is a risk of 120V to a near by ground. Think of your garage/cellar floor as a ground plane. I put Arc faults on every thing I can as well. And they actually found a problem !! Again, not required when I put them in, I think they are now, worth every penny.

I got a car with an airbag long before they were required. Didn’t need to make it a federal law to apply common sense.