Replacement for Model S/X?

[tallypwner]

I feel like it's obvious that these models need an all new ground up rebuild. It seems like a smart idea to maybe combine the two and create a new mid/large size crossover without any special features like falcon wing doors. Just a really well designed and engineered simple $80kish crossover. A bigger fancier Model Y pretty much.

Nobody knows for sure, but where do we see the future of the S and X? Discontinued? Mild updates for 10 more years then discontinued? New versions of each in 5-10 years?

I know they aren't selling well and not great margins on them so Tesla probably doesn't want to put much effort into those projects at the moment. But I don't have any interest really in the Cybertruck, and smaller economy models or the roadster.

I'd like my Model S with a little more ground clearance for easier ingress/egress and hitting less stuff on the ground, lighten it by 500 lbs, give it another 200 miles of range, and a less minimalistic more comfortable interior, and better reliability.

 

[brainhouston]

i hate crossovers n the fact that every EV is doing one..
i want more full size sedans... hope S/X stays...
but yeah new design of each would be great

 

[ucmndd]

I know they aren't selling well and not great margins on them

I think the margins are actually very healthy. Pretty much all the R&D is long since paid for at this point and they're still selling at a substantial profit even with the lowered pricing. Certainly far healthier per-unit margins than the 3/Y.

The question becomes when does the space on the factory floor become more valuable than the margins being made at lower volume. Tesla doesn't seem particularly interested in continued major investment in Fremont/California so I suspect it could be a good long time before they look at that space and want to use it for something else.

People rail on the S for being "stale" but I don't really subscribe to that argument. It's one of the most if not the most beautiful sedans on the market and the general shape/silhouette is timeless. Not that I'm against continued refinement and refreshing and redesign, but I wouldn't want the DNA to change much.

As for the X, I agree it needs a ground-up re-think. It's ugly and complicated. Replace it with a more mainstream 3 row crossover, ditch the stupid doors, and laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[Crutonius]

I think the S is still a great looking car. It seems like one of those designs that age pretty well. Just my opinion.

I think the problem is that it's really hard to justify the cost of an S over a 3. Maybe Tesla should try to make the S into a halo car since I don't know if the new roadster is even going to happen. At least beef up the interior quality.

 

[bkcyk]

The 2021.5+ S is still one of the best looking sedans in the market. Wide, sticky tires. Wide body. Refreshed lights. The Plaid remains a legit ev rocket and will be for some time.

But honestly, once the major OEMs catch up in the next 2-3 years where supercharging is no longer exclusive to Teslas, I’m out.

The parts supply lock down sucks. Tesla service centers are run by a bunch of inbreds.

Next.

 

[krsgio]

personally I think they are due for a full up redesign over another 'refresh'. I agree that the look is timeless but the longer this car stays the way it is I can't imagine many people jumping from legacy S to refresh S to facelift refresh S + + + without a redesign before looking elsewhere. That's my problem currently is as much as I want a new car there isn't much out there that meets what I'd want/need so I'm back to maybe another S. But I can't justify spending 80-90k on the same car with some makeup while my car still functionally is great. I get there's improvements to efficiency and all that but in the end & in my mind it's practically a lateral-ish move. I need more than that to justify a new car payment but I'm sure I'm one of the exceptions to this as I know lots of people go thru vehicles like upgrading cell phones.

 

[smogne41]

Tesla lost way more potential S/X refresh sales than they can ever acknowledge just based on the stalk removal and (initial) instance on the yoke. We will see the same thing with Highland Model 3.

There is no fundamental reason a body design can't stick around for a very very long time, it has happened several times in automotive history (OG Beetle, MGB, etc). As long as the design is good at least, and gets periodic updates to incorporate real improvements. In fact, I think we should all root for that, since planed obsolesce is a cancer on society I hope we can get away from. The S was (and still is) a great design overall.

Also, for those saying Tesla should just get rid of the S and make a CUV/SUV instead, please stop. We have plenty of EV CUV choices and basically only a few low-slung real car-sized EVs. I remember somebody unironically suggested a few months ago on the Electrek comments that Mazda should discontinue the roadster MX-5 and change it into a 4-door EV CUV. Are people that buy CUVs just incapable of comprehending that some people have other preferences or needs? It's really weird. Almost as weird as Tesla fans not comprehending that not everybody wants a Tesla

 

[Tiger]

Tesla does continuous incremental improvements. They will first perfect the outcome so that people are satisfied, and then they will make them in volume and at a competetive price. Tesla knows that it makes poorer interiors and chassis than for example Porsche or Audi or Lucid, but at the same time it sells more than those brands because it has lower price and better performance. Tesla is mostly interested in sales volume in order to transition to clean enery vehicles so they are figuring out ways to make S/X better and at lower pricepoint.

 

[smogne41]

Tesla does continuous incremental improvements. They will first perfect the outcome so that people are satisfied, and then they will make them in volume and at a competetive price. Tesla knows that it makes poorer interiors and chassis than for example Porsche or Audi or Lucid, but at the same time it sells more than those brands because it has lower price and better performance. Tesla is mostly interested in sales volume in order to transition to clean enery vehicles so they are figuring out ways to make S/X better and at lower pricepoint.

Tesla has gone out of their way to not take feedback from customers, so there will be no 'perfect the outcome' happening. It is a amazing that the yoke managed to be retired as standard, but they have still managed to keep their fingers in their ears regarding the stalks even though that has always been the bigger complaint. I also see no evidence that they have any plan to move the S/X down market (nor should they really). Make them better yes, but they should still try to do well in those segments. But sales are sliding in those segments, perhaps they should try and figure out why...

 

[tallypwner]

I just want like 1 inch higher ground clearance, easier ingress/egress, about 500 lbs lighter, 200 miles more range, no yolk, bring back stalks, greatly improve build quality reliability and repair costs. The design is fine with me and doesn't need to be changed. Just needs a re-engineer ground up to make it a better vehicle. No experimenting with oddities just polished product. I'm in the same boat as many Model S owners where I'd like a new car but don't want to buy a newer version of my car where very little has changed and in some ways is worse (no stalks). Don't care about back seat entertainment. More screens is not the answer.

 

[ucmndd]

about 500 lbs lighter, 200 miles more range

 

[NeuroRad]

What I’d personally want in an updated S goes against Tesla’s ethos at this point. They’re moving towards cheaper, automated. Removing more and more of the driving experience. I like and intend to drive my own car. I want premium components. I don’t want plastic hub caps etc

 

[tallypwner]

Yea, Tesla is going more cheap, minimalism, automated, disposable.

The recent Mercedes EQXX is lightweight and getting 600 mile range in prototype. It's not a pipe dream. The Model S is old. Lithium ion packs are pretty old at this point. It's not outlandish to expect better.

 

[NeuroRad]

Up to this point mercedes sedan EVs are a non starter for me due to their looks. The Model S is possibly the best looking sedan made either EV or gas. Especially lowered and obviously on 21s. I also need the power. So until the other automakers catch up on that I’ll be stuck with the S.

 

[brainhouston]

Up to this point mercedes sedan EVs are a non starter for me due to their looks. The Model S is possibly the best looking sedan made either EV or gas. Especially lowered and obviously on 21s. I also need the power. So until the other automakers catch up on that I’ll be stuck with the S.

agree
i was hoping for bmw i5 but their price vs performance is disappointing..
i hope they at least get the HV tech right to last 8-10yrs then i might pick one up when prices tank...

 

[AMPd]

Up to this point mercedes sedan EVs are a non starter for me due to their looks. The Model S is possibly the best looking sedan made either EV or gas. Especially lowered and obviously on 21s. I also need the power. So until the other automakers catch up on that I’ll be stuck with the S.

Taycan looks better imo

 

[tallypwner]

I feel like Tesla build quality hasn't been getting a lot better either. And their service centers/customer service, repair wait times and costs have been insanely horrible.

They are still the value king for price per range/horsepower but I'm getting to the point where I don't care about extreme performance and I want all the other intangibles to be there.

The Macan EV looks promising, the EQXX Mercedes looks promising.

BMW EV's have been outperforming their EPA ranges while Tesla has been underperforming and cutting expectations.

I think other brands have caught up, especially if they can use the Supercharger network.

I feel like all the features Tesla keeps adding are negatives for me(yoke, touchscreen instead of buttons/stalks, more screens everywhere, more cameras and automated stuff, extreme horsepower versions). I really don't think they need to go downmarket from the Model 3 either.

I just can't seem to get excited about any new car. My 2013 Model S just seems as good or better in a lot of ways than 2024 offerings. Going from 260 miles of range to 360 just isn't enough for me to go out and spend a fresh $80k.

I kinda think Toyota played this whole long game perfectly. Skip the first gen lithium ion ultra heavy ultra expensive generation and skip to solid state batteries and come to market 15 years late. I think we're going to see a *sugar* load of lightly used heavily depreciated EV's in the next few years.

Push comes to shove the BMW IX looks like a bargain used. Great reviews and a lot cheaper than Model S or X.

I really didn't think we'd be this stagnant in EV tech 12 years after the Model S was released. It was like a giant leap back then... and we're still basically at the same point.

The Ramcharger with its range extender is actually a pretty cool idea. The new Charger looks special. I'm more excited about those 2 products than anything else. Tesla is kinda off my radar if the next 10 years of Tesla is economy mini model, Model Y refresh, Cybertruck refresh and Roadster.

 

[Tiger]

Yea, Tesla is going more cheap, minimalism, automated, disposable.

The recent Mercedes EQXX is lightweight and getting 600 mile range in prototype. It's not a pipe dream. The Model S is old. Lithium ion packs are pretty old at this point. It's not outlandish to expect better.

Tesla doesn't care about outliers. They care about volume. Their main volume audience is people who drive Toyotas. In airline travel the upper tier is what makes the whole flight profitable, but in cars if you can make all (size) segments profitable, you can sell all in volumes and you don't need a luxyry segment at all. Like Toyota. Lucid can be Tesla's Lexus, what do we care. People who want to pay more, can pay more.

 

[ucmndd]

The recent Mercedes EQXX is lightweight and getting 600 mile range in prototype. It's not a pipe dream. The Model S is old. Lithium ion packs are pretty old at this point. It's not outlandish to expect better.

Ok, but that car doesn't exist. The battery tech that they're talking about in glossy press releases hasn't been proven at scale whatsoever. What are the compromises to charging speed, degradation, longevity, etc?

I definitely look forward to the next major energy density breakthrough... but lithium ion is the current state of the art and that seems likely to be the case for the next decade or more. 200 more miles with 500 pounds less weight is still science fiction territory as of today.

 

[Krash]

I’d love to hear an argument for the order of the following being added to the S…

1. 48v
2. Megacasting
3. Structural battery pack

What else is an obvious, big addition?