Replacement for Model S/X?

[DerbyDave]

Love the A6 etron.

 

[tallypwner]

That Audi looks great. If they nail the landing that could be at the top of my list. I keep hoping they will expand the EV tax credit.

 

[SoCal Buzz]

That Audi looks great. If they nail the landing that could be at the top of my list. I keep hoping they will expand the EV tax credit.

Might be difficult, from the article: "It sounds like the Avant isn't slated for the U.S., though, which is unfortunate. Then again, while we don't get the current, regular A6 Avant in the U.S. either, we do get the RS 6, so that could be a possibility"

 

[Zer0t]

I stoped in and spoken to both a Mercedes Benz and BMW dealers. The iX, EQS have enormous incentives. The lease prices, I’m definitely moving back to leasing due to price volatility and technological change rate, are on par with a model X. The EQS and iX m60 did quite well in Kyle O’Connors 70 MPH range test (340). The EQE has big incentives, not as much as EQE, but they’re still priced like a model X. I’d consider one only as s lease because the purchase prices are so much higher than the X.

The EQE 53 AMG was really quite something inside and hit 270 in a range test with EPA at 235. The EQE 500 did 314 vs 270 EPA.

 

[The_Kilt]

I only recently moved to the MS, from a long running ownership of estate (wagon) cars, from Ford Mondeo's and Volvo's, to Jaguar Xf's. I love the space an esate gives, but in electric cars there arent really any contendors with decent space and quality. Here in the UK we have the MG estate which is cheap, works well, but looks pretty bad. The Taycan but is expensive, cant really fit three people in the back expecially with child seats, and the boot isnt really that big. Peugeot and Vauxhall reacently bought out esates but again they are pretty dull and boring.
The market is flooded with SUVs as that is what everyone else wants to buy. the small Sedans (M3) are popular for the BMW 3 series replacements, but for a family they arent great due to the interior space and boot space.

The Model S was the only car which ticked most of the boxes in terms of interior space and boot space, with the quality to come with it (even though its not that great its better than most). However i am not keen on the newer horizontal screens, i prefer the screen to be integrated into the dash, and i am really picky when it comes to interiers. Still at present there are no cars which come close the the MS and impressing me with the interior.
Mercedes stated they are stopping estates and convertables, so i doubt we will see an electric estate likewise with Volvo/Polestar. I dislike Audi and VW as a company with their Eithics, and BMW I find ride too harsh. To be honest i cant see any newer vehicles that come close to replacing the Model S for me.

As Tesla's current MS is only LHD, here in the UK there isnt a replacment for me quite yet, so unless Tesla do a proper refresh and bring back RHD, im sticking wih my current 2018 model.

 

[cptnslo]

I stoped in and spoken to both a Mercedes Benz and BMW dealers. The iX, EQS have enormous incentives. The lease prices, I’m definitely moving back to leasing due to price volatility and technological change rate, are on par with a model X. The EQS and iX m60 did quite well in Kyle O’Connors 70 MPH range test (340). The EQE has big incentives, not as much as EQE, but they’re still priced like a model X. I’d consider one only as s lease because the purchase prices are so much higher than the X.

The EQE 53 AMG was really quite something inside and hit 270 in a range test with EPA at 235. The EQE 500 did 314 vs 270 EPA.

I was looking at leasing an eqs 450 prior to getting my model s and although the interior is nice and the 4 wheel steer is helpful I just couldn’t get over the looks, the lack of charging infrastructure, although Mercedes would have provided a year of free charging, for me the main things were the lack of sentry (which I find helpful in public places and at night since I do not have a garage, and ironically the dog mode, I have my dog with me a LOT and it’s such a small but useful feature. The S reminds me of a sedan version of my mkv Supra where it just looks good from every angle. The eqs was hard to LIKE from any angle.

 

[Zer0t]

@cptnslo wrt charging a large chunk of the SC network will be available. I’ve done about a half dozen multi-thousand mile road trips in recent years. I’ve had very few issues doing in my Taycan, F150 Lightning and Rivian. Tesla locations are more convenient and have better amneties but it never prevented from getting my roadtrips done with little fanfare. Tesla however is clearly the superior experience.

looks are looks and totally subjective. I think the SUV exterior is ok on the EQS and EQE is a bit better. I actually like the iX sans that ridiculous fake grill. The interiors on all are amazing. It really depends your priorities. I’m only going to move from my S because my wife wants an SUV. It may very well be an X but I’m checking out everything given her use case.

 

[Tiger]

Interesting. R1S delivery times are just couple weeks.

 

[tallypwner]

Anyone else get vibes that Tesla/Elon has lost interest in cars and is focusing everything on autonomous/AI tech to ride that stock hype wave?

The vehicles are feeling very long in the tooth and no ETA for interesting new things. I'm in the Cybertruck is vaporware camp. Maybe they will shock the world and unveil a new Model S or X or something soon?

 

[ucmndd]

Anyone else get vibes that Tesla/Elon has lost interest in cars and is focusing everything on autonomous/AI tech to ride that stock hype wave?

The vehicles are feeling very long in the tooth and no ETA for interesting new things. I'm in the Cybertruck is vaporware camp. Maybe they will shock the world and unveil a new Model S or X or something soon?

I think it's just more settling into being a more mature, stable organization.

Model 3 refresh is seemingly well received and is really the default choice for the market segment. That's not necessarily exciting and flashy but it's a compelling business story. Model Y is apparently the best selling car in the world or close to it so things seem to be doing well there. Can't imagine the Y refresh will be far behind the 3.

Sure seems like there's something coming in the way of a revamped Model 3 Performance that could be pretty exciting.

The "Model 2" or whatever it's gonna be called could be a boon internationally but I'm guessing a big yawn in the US market.

Not sure what to make of the "Cybertruck is vaporware" comment given they're on the streets and very much exist. Maybe you man "vaporware" in the sense that what was delivered very much doesn't match up with what was promised, in which case I'd agree. They'll sell well to the fanatics for the next couple years but I don't see this being a long-term viable product for the market. It's a cosplay toy.

S/X are what they are. Amazing values in a market segment that is ever-shrinking and disinterested. Not a lot of people looking for "high value" $80,000 cars right now.

 

[tallypwner]

I feel the opposite way you do on all points.

The company seems to be in chaos with Elon saying he wants more control over pushing the company towards AI as a priority and sales/stock values going down even with new products and refreshes.

I haven't seen much interest in the Cybertruck, Model 3 refresh, Model 2, or Roadster. There was big fanfare at the Cybertruck launch event but mostly negative press and reviews. By Vaporware I just mean yea they made some but I think we will see extremely low volumes until it's discontinued.

Not sure there's great value with the S/X anymore. There's competition now with better build quality, customer service, range, performance etc now. AFAIK S and X sales are very very low.

I see the market segment as growing quickly with everyone pining for the next thing from an established automaker with good reliability/build quality/service and peace of mind.

I think the biggest factor behind the mediocre sales of things like EQS and IX are the insanely bad exterior designs. There's some compulsion with designers to make very wacky looking EV's and I'm not sure why they think that's a good thing.

Maybe I'm just seeing different news reports but everything I see looks like Tesla has stalled on vehicle and batteries and Elon is trying to pivot it to an AI company and sales of existing models going down consistently with no replacements in the pipeline.

 

[terranx]

I think it's just more settling into being a more mature, stable organization.

Model 3 refresh is seemingly well received and is really the default choice for the market segment. That's not necessarily exciting and flashy but it's a compelling business story. Model Y is apparently the best selling car in the world or close to it so things seem to be doing well there. Can't imagine the Y refresh will be far behind the 3.

Sure seems like there's something coming in the way of a revamped Model 3 Performance that could be pretty exciting.

The "Model 2" or whatever it's gonna be called could be a boon internationally but I'm guessing a big yawn in the US market.

Not sure what to make of the "Cybertruck is vaporware" comment given they're on the streets and very much exist. Maybe you man "vaporware" in the sense that what was delivered very much doesn't match up with what was promised, in which case I'd agree. They'll sell well to the fanatics for the next couple years but I don't see this being a long-term viable product for the market. It's a cosplay toy.

S/X are what they are. Amazing values in a market segment that is ever-shrinking and disinterested. Not a lot of people looking for "high value" $80,000 cars right now.

We'll see. I think Tesla is in for some rough times ahead. At this point, just about everyone who wants a 3/Y has one. The updates are pretty minor all things considered, I don't think necessarily enough to convince an existing owner to upgrade. The sales are declining despite continually dropping prices. Existing owners are also more reluctant to upgrade given the absolute destruction to the resale value.

What is also notable to me is that there just doesn't seem to be any buzz whatsoever about the Highland. Even on enthusiast sites like this, discussion is pretty muted compared to past releases. Some of those 3/Y owners may eventually go S/X (like I did), but after that, what's next? Nothing that Tesla sells are seems to be interested in making.

Cybertruck is pretty much universally felt to be a bit of a dud. Seems extremely doubtful it will maintain any momentum when there are more competent trucks out there available today.

On top of that, Tesla has stagnated (in fact regressed) when it comes to the autonomous *sugar* and the legacy companies have caught up and have more compelling offerings there.

 

[teko]

Some of those 3/Y owners may eventually go S/X (like I did), but after that, what's next? Nothing that Tesla sells are seems to be interested in making.

Back to ICE baby! Nice AMG, M5 goodness.

 

[terranx]

Back to ICE baby! Nice AMG, M5 goodness.

My next car will probably be a 911 of some sort, but that's obviously meant to be an additional car, not a replacement for the S. I'd like to keep an EV for a daily driver. Probably 2nd gen Taycan by the time I'm ready to buy another. Maybe BMW/Mercedes if they have real M or AMG equivalents by then.

 

[ucmndd]

Not sure there's great value with the S/X anymore. There's competition now with better build quality, customer service, range, performance etc now.

Serious question: What's the competition at say the Model S LR price point of $75k? I don't see really anything on the market offering the same value at that price.

I think the bigger problem is that the evolution of the market and economy means that there are fewer and fewer people looking to buy cars at this price point.

The people who might have otherwise stretched their budget to get into a Model S/X have many more options in the market now and are generally served and satisfied with the 3/Y or other mainstream choices available from other brands. Meanwhile the people who CAN spend that much on a car are less and less interested in the value compromises made by the S/X and don't have any particular issue spending another $25-30k more to get the soft leather massaging seats with heated ball cuppers and ego fluffers that they're after.

An $80k car is a hard sell at ~7% interest. It's not really a Tesla problem so much as a market/economy problem.

 

[ucmndd]

We'll see. I think Tesla is in for some rough times ahead. At this point, just about everyone who wants a 3/Y has one.

I agree that Tesla's in for a rough patch along with most of the rest of the auto industry. Weird times ahead and at least here in the US we're really starting to see the EV backlash and skepticism take root. That's gonna be a whole thing to overcome.

Disagree on the 3/Y though... it's hard to claim that the current best selling car in the world has exhausted the market of interested buyers. Model 3 remains in the top 10 for global sales as well.

At some point it just becomes routine, stable technology. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Toyota doesn't need a bunch of big flashy whizzbangs and gimmicks to convince people to buy a new Camry.

 

[tallypwner]

I agree that Tesla's in for a rough patch along with most of the rest of the auto industry. Weird times ahead and at least here in the US we're really starting to see the EV backlash and skepticism take root. That's gonna be a whole thing to overcome.

Disagree on the 3/Y though... it's hard to claim that the current best selling car in the world has exhausted the market of interested buyers. Model 3 remains in the top 10 for global sales as well.

At some point it just becomes routine, stable technology. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Toyota doesn't need a bunch of big flashy whizzbangs and gimmicks to convince people to buy a new Camry.

Key word there is, "new" Camry. Tesla isn't making new stuff. It's just hoping people continue to buy the old stuff, which are doing in fewer numbers. Automakers generally need a new version every 6-10 years. Model S is 12-13 years old now.

 

[cptnslo]

Key word there is, "new" Camry. Tesla isn't making new stuff. It's just hoping people continue to buy the old stuff, which are doing in fewer numbers. Automakers generally need a new version every 6-10 years. Model S is 12-13 years old now.

I mean the Camry hasn’t really changed much besides an exterior facelift and some software in a number of years either

 

[uscbucsfan]

Key word there is, "new" Camry. Tesla isn't making new stuff. It's just hoping people continue to buy the old stuff, which are doing in fewer numbers. Automakers generally need a new version every 6-10 years. Model S is 12-13 years old now.

The S/X were refreshed in 2021 and were refreshed prior to that.

The interior is completely different, speed, charging speed, ride quality, and exterior are all different.

It wasn't a major exterior refresh, but much like Porsche to the F150, body styles aren't typically reinvented when a car is popular.

Also, despite the CT downfalls, they'll sell all they can make for the next 2 years, which may not be a lot, but likely more than other EV trucks.

 

[ucmndd]

Model S is 12-13 years old now.

How do you define this? How many common parts are there between a 2012 and 2024 Model S? I'm guessing extremely few.