{Resolved-Yes!} Can Front and Falcon Wing Doors (FWD) be open simultaneously?

[dirkhh]

Moderator Note: Moving some posts from another thread here to continue the discussion. Frankly, just shocked we don't have someone sharing a video to settle this easily resolved question already.

I don't know if it was mentioned to you at delivery but "don't open both doors on the same side since the doors could collide as they are opening" is something that shouldn't have made it into production since each door is powered and software controllable.

That's an interesting comment. I have stared at the videos and find this physically impossible. The arc of no two doors overlap. Can you share more light on this? Especially as it doesn't appear to have been mentioned to most of the Model X owners who have taken delivery so far...

 

[hobbes]

That's an interesting comment. I have stared at the videos and find this physically impossible. The arc of no two doors overlap. Can you share more light on this? Especially as it doesn't appear to have been mentioned to most of the Model X owners who have taken delivery so far...

+1 Don´t believe it for 1 second. Also the thing with the FWD closing when it it closed. What should happen? And there was never any detail of the supposed problem described... Maybe someone with the guts can try it?!

 

[jmwang]

When I went to the unveiling/delivery, the lady in charge of deliveries, at a moment when she knew she had everyone's attention, said something to the effect of
"we have one rule you need to know, and thats to not open both doors simultaneously (front and FWD) as they may hit each other. You can open one and then the other no problem. If you *do* have them hit, don't worry, we'll fix it."

Even knowing that, I had a moment where I tried to open both passenger doors. In an impressive display of reflexes, my wife held her door closed, so we did not in fact get to test if what they said was true. I'm inclined to believe that someone found out recently that it is true, but not anxious to be the one to find out.

That's an interesting comment. I have stared at the videos and find this physically impossible. The arc of no two doors overlap. Can you share more light on this? Especially as it doesn't appear to have been mentioned to most of the Model X owners who have taken delivery so far...

 

[PGeer]

There's a recent video on the forum (sorry, don't have time to search) that shows how both doors open. If you pull the inside handle, the front door only opens a few degrees. Certainly not 45 degrees. Worst case if a door actually opens that far, it should just be an adjustment. I played with this at the reveal as well. Elon's door popped open and stayed put.

 

[highedu]

I posted several days back the same question to Max and others. An owner who had their Sig delivered was told the same by the DS. That he should not close both his front door and fwd at the same time due to risk of damage.

this is posted on the tesla model X owners club on fb which Bonnie is also a member of.

 

[ohmman]

With regard to the door overlap thing, I've been trying pretty hard to understand it as well (jmwang is not the first to mention it). At first it seemed impossible, but perhaps it's not entirely so. Here's the one way I can see it happening. During the initial opening phase of the falcon wing door, it is moving vertically. Because the falcon wing door is angled forward at the bottom, that frontmost edge may cross the path with the back edge of the front door prior to swinging outward.

If that's language is too convoluted, just look at a side photo of the MX, think about that bottom edge of the FaWD moving upward, and you can see a spot where it might cross with the back edge of the front door.

If, and I do mean if, this is true, it's something that will only be fixed with software, which means that it's a bit of a door design flaw.

I'll be very interested to see some confirmation of this issue one way or the other.

 

[highedu]

here is the comment from the FB group:

 

[jmwang]

There's a recent video on the forum (sorry, don't have time to search) that shows how both doors open. If you pull the inside handle, the front door only opens a few degrees. Certainly not 45 degrees. Worst case if a door actually opens that far, it should just be an adjustment. I played with this at the reveal as well. Elon's door popped open and stayed put.

Look, I agree, thats probably how it should work- that behavior would make sense to me. I would rather be manually opening my somewhat open door than trying to catch it before it hits something.
Service manager, in an email tells me:
"
The rear falcon wing doors do have a sonar type sensor that looks out for objects near the door and stops the door operation in order to prevent them from hitting the object. The front doors have pressure sensors and do not stop opening until the door actually touches something. The front doors by default do open to about a 45 degree angle automatically.
"
Everything is obviously fluid, hopefully it gets resolved to a state where I could hand my car to a valet. Thing about dudes with vision however, is sometimes they just insist on doing things a certain way.

- - - Updated - - -

top 3 please? I'm willing to be proven wrong on stuff. In fact I'd be happy to find out that things work better than I believe.

Too many conflicts

 

[dirkhh]

With regard to the door overlap thing, I've been trying pretty hard to understand it as well (jmwang is not the first to mention it). At first it seemed impossible, but perhaps it's not entirely so. Here's the one way I can see it happening. During the initial opening phase of the falcon wing door, it is moving vertically. Because the falcon wing door is angled forward at the bottom, that frontmost edge may cross the path with the back edge of the front door prior to swinging outward.

If that's language is too convoluted, just look at a side photo of the MX, think about that bottom edge of the FaWD moving upward, and you can see a spot where it might cross with the back edge of the front door.

If, and I do mean if, this is true, it's something that will only be fixed with software, which means that it's a bit of a door design flaw.

I'll be very interested to see some confirmation of this issue one way or the other.

I could have sworn this was impossible... but your comment made me think more about it. Here's what I come up with to visualize the problem:
If the FWD is open just a little bit, a few inches - it move up and slightly out. Could the top corner (or part of the edge from that corner down toward the handles) of the front door intersect with the edge of the FWD?
Given that the edge between the doors is not straight down but angled... yes, I think there might be a point where they could, in fact, intersect.

Wow. Mind blown.

 

[ohmman]

Wow. Mind blown.

Likewise, after I thought about it. I've requested that the mods move this discussion to a new thread, as I think it is quite worthy of it.

 

[highedu]

Likewise, after I thought about it. I've requested that the mods move this discussion to a new thread, as I think it is quite worthy of it.

I should get some points for bringing it up several days back and being ridiculed for the concept

 

[efusco]

Can Front and Falcon Wing Doors (FWD) be open simultaneously?

Moving some posts from another thread here to continue the discussion. Frankly, just shocked we don't have someone sharing a video to settle this easily resolved question already.

 

[bonnie]

The doors don't overlap. I've posted over in the wiki thread, but to finish the discussion here (hopefully, but this IS TMC afterall...) will repost here:

Front door and falcon door are perfectly fine to open at the same time as the opening arc of the front door is tangent to the arc of the falcon door. The only thing to be aware of is that given the close clearance between the doors, one should be careful not to place one's hand on the outside edge of a closed or nearly closed front door while the falcon door is in motion and also nearing the closed position. Basic due-care that one would apply to similarly-sensitive areas of a conventional door near the hinge point or when nearly closed.

 

[dirkhh]

Awesome. Thank you Bonnie...
I was kinda hoping this was the case

 

[ohmman]

Hooray. What a relief.

 

[Vger]

What would be really cool (hint to Bonnie) would be to take a time exposure of each door going through its full arc. That way we could fully visualize the swept volume of each door, and then the two together. For extra credit, do it twice with a lateral 8" move of the tripod to create a stereo pair for 3D viewing!

:biggrin:

 

[stopcrazypp]

If I remember correctly the falcon wing doors can be moved manually. To completely eliminate the possibility that there is an exact angle where the two hit (and without doing damage), perhaps it is possible to trying using that through the entire arch of the door. Someone will also have to be moving the front door to adjust that one too.

 

[ecarfan]

Can Front and Falcon Wing Doors (FWD) be open simultaneously?

Thank you Bonnie.
@jmwang, either the DS you quoted (below) was incorrect, or you misunderstood her. I don't know which is the case since I wasn't there. Since the X is new it is entirely possible that some Tesla employees are inadvertently spreading inaccurate information. But when I first read your post I never believed for a second that it could be true. There is no way that Tesla could spend years designing the X, spend tremendous resources to develop the Falcon Wing doors and the powered front doors, finalize the metal stamping dies and door components, and then end up with a car in production where the door edges could hit each other if they were used simultaneously.

When I went to the unveiling/delivery, the lady in charge of deliveries, at a moment when she knew she had everyone's attention, said something to the effect of
"we have one rule you need to know, and thats to not open both doors simultaneously (front and FWD) as they may hit each other. You can open one and then the other no problem. If you *do* have them hit, don't worry, we'll fix it."

 

[S'toon]

MaxK posted this youtube video of both front and falcon wing doors open last week:

 

[MaxK]

I could have sworn this was impossible... but your comment made me think more about it. Here's what I come up with to visualize the problem:
If the FWD is open just a little bit, a few inches - it move up and slightly out. Could the top corner (or part of the edge from that corner down toward the handles) of the front door intersect with the edge of the FWD?
Given that the edge between the doors is not straight down but angled... yes, I think there might be a point where they could, in fact, intersect.
View attachment 105927
Wow. Mind blown.

I am going to say that it can't happen. First, we opened & closed the doors in every imaginable way while we had the car. 2nd, watch the video Tesla Model X settings demo part 3 - YouTube and pay attention to the strip between the front door and the FW. The photos below I believe are pretty conclusive to say that they cannot touch: