Reuters: "Tesla readies revamped Model 3 with project 'Highland' -sources" [projected 3rd quarter 2023]

[BigNick]

I think the maximum AC charging rate that any EVs have worked with is 19.2kW, 240 volts at 80 amps. Some of the older Tesla Model S's and some Ford Lightnings will support this rate. Other than the Lightning, I don't think any other currently produced EV supports more than 11.5 kW charging, 240 volts at 48 amps. The 11.5kW rate is supported by all current Teslas except for the RWD Model 3, at least here in the United States.

P.S. The Lucid Air is supposed to have 19.2kW charging capability, and Rivians are good for 11.5kW. I believe there are a number of other currently produced EVs that also support the 11.5kW rate.

P.P.S. I don't know which car has the highest AC charge rate in miles per hour, but a Tesla Model 3 has to be one of the leaders at 44 miles per hour when connected to an 11.5kW charger.

The upcoming Chevy Equinox EV (only the top model) will offer 19.2 kW AC charging. I believe the Cadillac Lyriq (technically in production, but there are very few of them in the wild right now) also supports 19.2 kW AC charging.

I had my HPWC installed on a 100A circuit thinking future Teslas would continue to support 19.2 kW AC charging as was optional on the Model S at the time.

 

[GregD60]

The upcoming Chevy Equinox EV (only the top model) will offer 19.2 kW AC charging. I believe the Cadillac Lyriq (technically in production, but there are very few of them in the wild right now) also supports 19.2 kW AC charging.

I had my HPWC installed on a 100A circuit thinking future Teslas would continue to support 19.2 kW AC charging as was optional on the Model S at the time.

I think there's a fair chance that at least some versions of the Cybertruck will support 19.2 kW AC charging. It would make sense if they produce the 500+ mile range version.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

I think there's a fair chance that at least some versions of the Cybertruck will support 19.2 kW AC charging. It would make sense if they produce the 500+ mile range version.

good luck with that version. the battery needed to move a full size truck 500+ miles EPA would be so heavy and expensive you aren't left with much truck capability at that point at an extremely high price. The much lighter, much smaller and MUCH more aerodynamic Model S barely gets 400 miles EPA rating...

 

[804son]

good luck with that version. the battery needed to move a full size truck 500+ miles EPA would be so heavy and expensive you aren't left with much truck capability at that point at an extremely high price. The much lighter, much smaller and MUCH more aerodynamic Model S barely gets 400 miles EPA rating...

In Tesla speak: 500 range (promised) = 300 range (EPA) = 250 (real world range)

 

[GregD60]

When it comes to range estimates, I think that Tesla has pretty consistently met them, at least on the EPA rating. Real world range may be less, but that's true of pretty much every EV out there, and most non-EV cars out there as well.

We'll see when it comes to the Cybertruck's range, but I seen no technical reason why they can't achieve over 500 miles range. Weight and general size aren't particular obstacles to getting good range in an EV. If they were, a model S wouldn't have any better range than a Model 3, yet it does. Also, the increased size of the Cybertruck over the Model S makes more room available for batteries. Obviously, the Cybertruck won't be as aerodynamic as a Model S, but that really only has a significant impact on highway range. Also, Elon has stated that the Cybertruck's Cd may be as low as .30, which would be breakthrough for a truck.

 

[Bouba]

My M3LR does the EPA…I don’t drive like a maniac but I don’t think the EPA does either

 

[dfwatt]

I think there's a fair chance that at least some versions of the Cybertruck will support 19.2 kW AC charging. It would make sense if they produce the 500+ mile range version.

As others have already pointed out, any version of 500Mi range on the first gen Cybertruck is a unicorn. That would take a nearly 200 KW hour battery which is not going to happen period. Tesla has made it clear that they're interested in producing as many units as possible that means they're going to use every single 4680 cell they can make. Very doubtful that they would allocate that much of a precious resource to one vehicle. Down the road perhaps with more energy dense chemistries, you will see common >400mi range and some >500mi range vehicles, but not for a while.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

When it comes to range estimates, I think that Tesla has pretty consistently met them, at least on the EPA rating. Real world range may be less, but that's true of pretty much every EV out there, and most non-EV cars out there as well.

We'll see when it comes to the Cybertruck's range, but I seen no technical reason why they can't achieve over 500 miles range. Weight and general size aren't particular obstacles to getting good range in an EV. If they were, a model S wouldn't have any better range than a Model 3, yet it does. Also, the increased size of the Cybertruck over the Model S makes more room available for batteries. Obviously, the Cybertruck won't be as aerodynamic as a Model S, but that really only has a significant impact on highway range. Also, Elon has stated that the Cybertruck's Cd may be as low as .30, which would be breakthrough for a truck.

Taycan did better than EPA and Mach E / Lightning and BMW i4 came very close. Tesla is notorious for not even coming remotely close to EPA in real world driving...

 

[texas_star_TM3]

As others have already pointed out, any version of 500Mi range on the first gen Cybertruck is a unicorn. That would take a nearly 200 KW hour battery which is not going to happen period. Tesla has made it clear that they're interested in producing as many units as possible that means they're going to use every single 4680 cell they can make. Very doubtful that they would allocate that much of a precious resource to one vehicle. Down the road perhaps with more energy dense chemistries, you will see common >400mi range and some >500mi range vehicles, but not for a while.

thank you!

even with higher density cells in the future... that's still *a lot* of extra weight vs. a truck with 300+ miles range. and all that extra weight - in addition to high costs for the battery - will lower payload significantly ...

if you tow 7k+ trailers regularly and for longer distances... you will be best served with a heavy duty diesel truck for a long time. I don't see battery technology making such a jump that we have EV trucks getting 250+ miles of range while towing anytime soon (that would require at least 500+ miles EPA)

 

[GregD60]

Taycan did better than EPA and Mach E / Lightning and BMW i4 came very close. Tesla is notorious for not even coming remotely close to EPA in real world driving...

Here's a reasonable test that disagrees with your assertion, unless you call missing the claimed range by 23% "very close" -

Driving on the same roads at the same time in a similar fashion, the Mercedes EQS returned 72% of its claimed range, Model 3 was 75%, the Mach E was 77%,, and the BMW iX was 82%. So, the iX came the closest, only 18% off of its claimed range, but that's really still quite a ways off. If Tesla is notorious, it's only because they're the biggest name in EVs, and the target of many attacks as a result.

That is just one example, but there are plenty of others out there. The only instances where any of the EVs exceed their ratings that I've seen, is where people drive at a reduced rate of speed, like when Tesla Bjorn on Youtube does his Sunday drives, or they have a downhill or a tailwind, or other conditions that help the range.

 

[dfwatt]

Taycan did better than EPA and Mach E / Lightning and BMW i4 came very close. Tesla is notorious for not even coming remotely close to EPA in real world driving...

Not true in multiple head-to-head comparisons. See carwow and several others where Tesla is mid-pack. Around town we routinely beat the EPA mileage number

 

[GregD60]

thank you!

even with higher density cells in the future... that's still *a lot* of extra weight vs. a truck with 300+ miles range. and all that extra weight - in addition to high costs for the battery - will lower payload significantly ...

if you tow 7k+ trailers regularly and for longer distances... you will be best served with a heavy duty diesel truck for a long time. I don't see battery technology making such a jump that we have EV trucks getting 250+ miles of range while towing anytime soon (that would require at least 500+ miles EPA)

Like I said, I'll just wait and see what Tesla actually comes out with, but I know that it is technically feasible for Tesla to make a truck with 500+ miles of range. The question is does Tesla think it would be the best use of their funds and production capability, and would there be an adequate market for it at whatever they would price it at. We should get the answers to these questions in the not too distant future.

 

[GregD60]

As others have already pointed out, any version of 500Mi range on the first gen Cybertruck is a unicorn. That would take a nearly 200 KW hour battery which is not going to happen period. Tesla has made it clear that they're interested in producing as many units as possible that means they're going to use every single 4680 cell they can make. Very doubtful that they would allocate that much of a precious resource to one vehicle. Down the road perhaps with more energy dense chemistries, you will see common >400mi range and some >500mi range vehicles, but not for a while.

While Tesla might not make a 500 mile Cybertruck initially, for the reasons you've noted and more, I do think they will make it at some point, and I wouldn't call it a unicorn, as in something mythical that will never exist. The main thing that argues in favor of Tesla making the 500 mile version right away is that Tesla has typically started their production of different models with the most expensive variants first, and then move on to making cheaper versions as supply catches up to demand.

For instance, why isn't Tesla selling a RWD version of the Model Y in the United States at a lower price than the other Model Y variants? I think it's because they can still sell as many of the more expensive variants as they can produce. Once that is no longer true, I expect that we'll see a RWD option like they already sell in China and coming soon to Canada.

 

[dfwatt]

While Tesla might not make a 500 mile Cybertruck initially, for the reasons you've noted and more, I do think they will make it at some point, and I wouldn't call it a unicorn, as in something mythical that will never exist. The main thing that argues in favor of Tesla making the 500 mile version right away is that Tesla has typically started their production of different models with the most expensive variants first, and then move on to making cheaper versions as supply catches up to demand.

For instance, why isn't Tesla selling a RWD version of the Model Y in the United States at a lower price than the other Model Y variants? I think it's because they can still sell as many of the more expensive variants as they can produce. Once that is no longer true, I expect that we'll see a RWD option like they already sell in China.

Well it's anyone's guess as to when a 500 mile cybertruck might appear but it certainly isn't happening anytime soon. It would be a nice option for a lot of people but probably not happening for a while. Additionally now that the base dual motor Model Y is with incentives under $40,000 I'm not sure you can call that an expensive variant. That's now about $10,000 under the median price of a new vehicle in the United States which itself is rather amazing.

 

[GregD60]

Well it's anyone's guess as to when a 500 mile cybertruck might appear but it certainly isn't happening anytime soon. Additionally now that the base dual motor Model Y is with incentives under $40,000 I'm not sure you can call that an expensive variant. That's now about $10,000 under the median price of a new vehicle in the United States which itself is rather amazing.

I think there's a 50/50 chance that Tesla will produce a 500 mile variant of the Cybertruck within the first year of production, and a 20-25% chance of it being the first version of the Cybertruck produced. I didn't, and wouldn't, call a Model Y expensive in today's car market, but I have no doubt that there is a market out there for an even cheaper RWD variant.

 

[dfwatt]

I think there's a 50/50 chance that Tesla will produce a 500 mile variant of the Cybertruck within the first year of production, and a 20-25% chance of it being the first version of the Cybertruck produced. I didn't, and wouldn't, call a Model Y expensive in today's car market, but I have no doubt that there is a market out there for an even cheaper RWD variant.

For sure on that last Point not so sure about the first one. I think Tesla is working very hard to increase their addressable Market down to about the $25,000 presumed Model 2. I suspect they are keenly aware that the Chinese are their only real long-term competition in any of these segments as the legacy automakers fail systematically to produce EVs at scale with any kind of profit margin. Somebody was posting on how Tesla was approaching this low end as some kind of loss market in which they would compete just for the sake of competing. Tesla doesn't do anything that way - they intend to make money on that $25,000 car and you can bet its technology will be the best at that price point.

 

[superflyrolla]

The main update I'd like to see on highland is getting rid of the 20" uber-turbines. I know it shouldn't require a complete vehicle change, right? Tesla can get the cost reduction to 18's to make stockholders happy, we get a wheel that doesn't immediately need replacing because it weighs 32lbs, is prone to damage, and reduces the range of the car.

 

[Evpowerdan]

The main update I'd like to see on highland is getting rid of the 20" uber-turbines. I know it shouldn't require a complete vehicle change, right? Tesla can get the cost reduction to 18's to make stockholders happy, we get a wheel that doesn't immediately need replacing because it weighs 32lbs, is prone to damage, and reduces the range of the car.

BUT - 20" wheels look great! I now on the last sports vehicle I owned with 35 profile side wall on a 19 wheel - a Texas pothole blew out my tire instantly when it bottomed out. Luckily didn't bend the wheel.

Agree, 19" with a slightly wider OEM tire (245) would be ideal, especially in areas with crapy roads and for snow (presuming they are all-season tires - not summer tires).

 

[chinney]

I admit that assessment of looks is subjective, but my own subjective view is that I really don’t care for the look of the 20 inch wheels on the Model 3. I never understood where the aesthetic preference for bigger wheels came from.

Aside from looks, I do understand that some are of the view that bigger wheels provide more crisp handling, but I think that the Model 3 with 18 inch wheels already handles very nicely. And given the hit you take with range, comfort, wheel and tire durability, and cost with the bigger wheels, the desire for them just leaves me confused.

 

[S&B's M3]

BUT - 20" wheels look great! I now on the last sports vehicle I owned with 35 profile side wall on a 19 wheel - a Texas pothole blew out my tire instantly when it bottomed out. Luckily didn't bend the wheel.

Agree, 19" with a slightly wider OEM tire (245) would be ideal, especially in areas with crapy roads and for snow (presuming they are all-season tires - not summer tires).

Sure the bigger the rim, the better looking the car... NOT! I'll stick to my 18's...