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Reuters: "Tesla readies revamped Model 3 with project 'Highland' -sources" [projected 3rd quarter 2023]
- Thread starter 3sr+buyer
- Start date
Who says the refresh will be an upgrade? What if it's about incorporating production efficiencies and decontenting various items - like shifter and turn signal stalks, for example - to boost profits?
If so, I'll be content with my '22 Model 3 for quite a while.
Imagine the current - just released - LR was cut down to 333 miles EPA from the previous 358 miles EPA and only barely more than the 310 miles EPA when the LR launched in 2018…. So yeah… Tesla isn’t going to roll out a 400 miles EPA Model 3 LR anytime soon…
Yup. Losing signal stalks and shifter is a huge downgrade for me … ventilated seats aren’t compensating for that.
Now if the highland has a state of the art 360 birdseye view, ventilated seats, 350+ miles of range and upgraded audio, display… then we are talking. I’m either case I wouldn’t want to get a new version first and let them iron out kinks for 6+ months first …
360 Birdseye view is most welcome. If only they would get started already. Third quarter might mean September though.
Not for me - none of those additions would overcome the ridiculousness of button-operated turn signals and gear selection, especialy when the company parts bin already has perfectly capable and familiar alternatives available.
If the stalks go away my next new car will be a Volvo.
All this complaining by members of the Forum completely misses a huge point. What if this refreshed Model 3, despite all of its warts (such as the removal of control stalks Etc) sells in a dual motor version for $40,000- that's $32,500 after Federal incentives and tax credits. This is a dual motor car with 0 to 60 in around 4 seconds, with at least 330 miles of range, possibly more, for for a price that no one else can even approach in terms of range and performance or for that matter Driving Experience. Do you think that there's any serious competition for that vehicle out there anywhere in the next two years? If you do please share. And please let's not talk about the "upcoming" GM platform because GM has only proven that they are all talk and no production. And Ford is pretty much admitting that they can't compete with Tesla. At least they get points for honesty. As for the VW group? You've got to be kidding!
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So far on that very big question of value for the money Tesla has not yet fumbled the ball. Even when their cars were more expensive there was no real competition on value, except maybe the Porsche Taycan as competition for the Model S. But even that has dropped off although the Porsche still has the much better chassis.
If the base Model Y is now coming in at $40,000 after incentives, it's hard to believe that Tesla won't undercut that in the sedan by at least $5,000 if not more. They seem to have figured out how to increase Demand by cutting prices and giving up some of their still rather fat margin on each car. It's a trajectory and a pathway onto which no one else can follow them because nobody else has any margin and most are actually losing money on their EV lines. I think we're very close to seeing the very first bankruptcies among the Legacy automaker group over the next two to three years. They simply can't compete, and all their noise and promotion to the contrary will not obscure that.
My biggest concern is not about whether or not Tesla will dominate the landscape. I think that's virtually assured. The bigger question is whether they will show more or less of the inevitable attraction of increasing levels of sociopathy and narcissistic personality disorder into the executive group as they get fatter and have more and more money. That's happened with many other disruptors as character disordered individuals are attracted to guaranteed money. GM and Ford were amazingly good cases in point. And it did not help matters that Henry Ford himself was pretty character disordered to begin with.
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Agree, Tesla is exciting now but in the future will they start acting like a legacy vendor in their field?
But tech companies, which Tesla is, tend to innovate to stay competitive
Legacy auto only stays competitive with tweaks to their platforms
Interesting how Hyundai owns Boston Dynamics and at least from the outside, we don’t see that company’s innovation at the parent company.
An example of legacy auto owning tech company. Results TBD
Yeah it's very hard to predict. One huge unacknowledged advantage that Tesla has had for years is that they were regarded after SpaceX as the number one place for elite engineering Talent, and from that, they have gobbled up thousands and thousands of the best engineers in a variety of fields. A lot of that came from the halo effect of Elon, but this may have significantly dimmed under the drama cycles and polarization Elon has generated on Twitter and in political arenas. I still think Tesla will be a magnet for top talent but it's possible at some point that a competitor could arise with somebody at the helm with Elon's level of technical genius but with less narcissism and authoritarian nonsense. I was hoping that Lucid could be that player but they look like they've stumbled on the predictable massive difficulties going from prototypes to production and in any case they've got Saudi money behind them, which makes Elon's issues look pretty mild. In any case Tesla's lead in so many ways is actually stretching rather than shrinking.
It will be interesting to see whether or not they can stay on course and on mission (accelerating the transition to sustainable energy and transportation) as opposed to the tendency for vast aggregations of money to derail chasing world domination. If they actually stay on-mission they'll make tons of money anyway but once you get plutocrats in charge of big systems that's all they care about unfortunately is more money, and not whatever the group was originally about. Although I have a low opinion of a fair chunk of Elon's behavior in some contexts, I don't think money is going to corrupt him because I really do think he believes in the mission more than the money. In that sense Elon is very complex and his personality reflects a kind of uneasy alloy between compensatory and defensive narcissism, genius, pro-social motives (like saving the world), and self-promoting motives, all part of the confusing trajectory of going from geeky, awkward and bullied young coding genius to world icon and Tech leader. I'm hopeful that the best parts of Elon's personality will rein in some of the worst parts. But time will tell.
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Tech companies can get complacent too. For example Nokia and Blackberry were innovative for their time, but they got complacent after massive success and then ultimately failed. Let's hope Tesla doesn't go down that path.
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
True that. This might be getting a little too deep for a thread about a bumper update, but despite Elon's frequent claims, he's no engineer and hasn't done jack to develop any of this stuff. What he is, is one of the greatest visionary leaders of our generation as well as the most successful human in history. The talent that these attributes attract is second to none - and that is the real key to Tesla's success - that so many of the world's most brilliant and motivated engineers flock to his companies. But thanks to his belligerent insistence on shoving his personality flaws down the world's throat, Tesla and SpaceX are likely experiencing a wicked combination of poor retention rates coupled with low quality applicant pools which may produce a dramatic slump in their ability to retain their competitive advantage over the coming years.
Yep all that is very worrisome. Like you say we are a bit far afield from the details of project Highland but I do wonder if anyone in the top group at Tesla has Elon's respect enough for him to hear "no, that's not a good idea" on almost any subject. I hope so.
that's a lot of *ifs* ... so Tesla is cutting the Model 3 AWD by ~(16%) ? that's a lot of cost savings needed to *off-set* that price cut while not hurting margins too much... if they make the Model 3 hypothetically cheaper and cheaper and cheaper but cutting costs and ommitting stuff... eventually they will lose the mid-tier of the market with enough $$ to upgrade to something better built/ quieter/ proper controls/ service experience... 0-60 at a good price isn't everything...
Maybe the intent is to capture some M2 buyers now with a scaled down M3
Then back up when the M2 arrives
Feel we want the M3 to stay mid market
Let the others fill in the bottom M2 market
Then release the M2 and blow them away with performance and features
Think M3 Camry/Accord
M2 Carolla/Civic
Then back up when the M2 arrives
Feel we want the M3 to stay mid market
Let the others fill in the bottom M2 market
Then release the M2 and blow them away with performance and features
Think M3 Camry/Accord
M2 Carolla/Civic
So the toughest question to ask here is do you think that you are better at balancing these trade-offs than anybody at Tesla? Cuz these are all obvious considerations. So far, despite all the so-called competition, Tesla continues to completely dominate the EV Market. And if they hit their target of a 50% cost reduction in the model 3 manufacturer relative to its original 2017 production cost, this does mean that they will offer a car still with significant margin at the price point I've suggested or something around there. Whose car even on the drawing board do you think beats the dual motor M3 with 330 miles of range at a list price of 40k?
