Roadster 3.0

[markwj]

Anyone else remember that line from HHGTTG? When Deep Thought announces that it will take 10 million years to work out the ultimate question, then goes on to point out all that they can do while waiting for the answer. Chat shows, lecture circuits, etc.

If Tesla just announced these things, with pricing, benchmarks, press packs, a FAQ, and answers to every question we could think of asking. Then, what would we talk about? It really would take all the fun out of it. It is a conspiracy, I tell you.

 

[tomsax]

Nissan sells replacement Leaf 24 kWh packs for $5,500 (with required trade-in). Tesla sells the 25 kWh bump from 60 to 85 for less than $8k. Those two translate to $16k and less than $22k, resp., for 70 kWh. Obviously, these are different packs and there are other factors in play (like ZEV credits), but I think those numbers argue that the Roadster 3 pack could come in under $30k, maybe even under $20k.

Call me a dreamer.

 

[pharma5]

Anyone else remember that line from HHGTTG? When Deep Thought announces that it will take 10 million years to work out the ultimate question, then goes on to point out all that they can do while waiting for the answer. Chat shows, lecture circuits, etc.

If Tesla just announced these things, with pricing, benchmarks, press packs, a FAQ, and answers to every question we could think of asking. Then, what would we talk about? It really would take all the fun out of it. It is a conspiracy, I tell you.

Will take that as $42k. (I always thought there was something fundamentally wrong with battery pack pricing...)

 

[spaceballs]

Wondering how naming will go after Roadster been upgraded to 3.0? Unless they add in all the other previous revision changes during the upgrade, one might have to say 1.5 --> 3.0 to get an clear idea of what model 3.0 you would have.

 

[WarpedOne]

So, now we "know" they will use off-the-shelf LiIon cells (not ModelS cells that are made to order).
70kWh divided by 6831 results in 10,2 Wh per cell, at 3.7V nominal that is a ~2800 mAh cell.
Nothing fancy anymore, run-of-the-mill cell. eBay starts at $2,5 per single 'no-name' cell, using this price the new battery would cost $17k. Tesla will of course use better and more expensive cells, but also place a big order, possibly comming under this single cell price. I'd guess $15k is not out-of-the question for the new battery.
What was the price of prepaid pack back in 2008? I bet they tried to find a cell that cost them less than that prepaid option. Efficiency improvements will be another 10k.

 

[j-g]

I haven't seen a comment yet from owners who have plenty of range in the current version. I don't drive mine particularly far and am not motivated by a range increase. Also looking to the future when my Signature might be collectible. Any comments on whether upgrading might reduce desirability in the future?

 

[NigelM]

I haven't seen a comment yet from owners who have plenty of range in the current version. I don't drive mine particularly far and am not motivated by a range increase. Also looking to the future when my Signature might be collectible. Any comments on whether upgrading might reduce desirability in the future?

I get >180 miles on a standard charge and my SOC rarely drops below 30 miles (even with spirited driving). If the upgrade is in five figures it's not very interesting to me.

I'm likely to sell (or trade-in) my Roadster when the X finally comes so the availability of an upgrade might make the car even more attractive to someone.

 

[supersnoop]

I haven't seen a comment yet from owners who have plenty of range in the current version. I don't drive mine particularly far and am not motivated by a range increase. Also looking to the future when my Signature might be collectible. Any comments on whether upgrading might reduce desirability in the future?

Logically speaking, the difference in resale value between an upgraded Roadster and one with the original battery will be less than the price of the upgrade. I imagine an upgrad d Roadster will be more desirable, but resale and desirability won't take much of a hit.

 

[JRP3]

Nissan sells replacement Leaf 24 kWh packs for $5,500 (with required trade-in). Tesla sells the 25 kWh bump from 60 to 85 for less than $8k. Those two translate to $16k and less than $22k, resp., for 70 kWh. Obviously, these are different packs and there are other factors in play (like ZEV credits), but I think those numbers argue that the Roadster 3 pack could come in under $30k, maybe even under $20k.

Call me a dreamer.

I've been projecting similar pricing accounting for the "good will" value it will bring Tesla.

So, now we "know" they will use off-the-shelf LiIon cells (not ModelS cells that are made to order).
70kWh divided by 6831 results in 10,2 Wh per cell, at 3.7V nominal that is a ~2800 mAh cell.

We don't know if 70kWh is actual capacity or available capacity. It better be only available since actual would make hitting 400 miles even more difficult with top and bottom buffers.

 

[sethr]

I haven't seen a comment yet from owners who have plenty of range in the current version. I don't drive mine particularly far and am not motivated by a range increase. Also looking to the future when my Signature might be collectible. Any comments on whether upgrading might reduce desirability in the future?

I drive mostly short distances, on the order of 10-20 miles. Occasionally I have a round trip more like 50-70 miles, but also sometimes drive only a few miles to the grocery store. I have noticed that my Roadster seems "happier" with the longer drives: I charge to a higher ideal miles and the pack balances quickly. On the shortest drives, the opposite is true. (I would appreciate any comments on this situation: my Roadster is my only car, so no choice about the short drives.) I am wondering if the higher range battery would see an even larger difference, and it might not last as well as my current one? My CAC is currently at 155.00, and though I do have one brick that's consistently the lowest, it's only 0.02V lower than the average voltage. I got my CPO with only 1000 miles on it, and have only added 7K in the 18 months I've had it. So I think I'm in great shape as is. There are some places just beyond my current range that I can imagine going to if I got the upgraded battery, but mostly I have more than enough range now. Then again, if it's not way expensive and it isn't bad for the battery to be driven short distances frequently, I'd be very tempted, as one does not know what the future brings. If I don't get it, and then wish I had and it's no longer available, I'll be kicking myself. As to whether it's a good idea monetarily, I think that too will depend on how long the upgrade is available. If it is announced that it will always be available, that would be very different from a short window to decide whether to upgrade or not. I am hoping Mr. Musk will announce it will always be available, especially as I have no battery replacement option. I think that will make an un-upgraded Roadster highly desirable, as it will be "all original", yet upgradable if some future potential buyer wants that. As to what I'll do, I don't think I know enough yet to decide.

 

[djp]

Then again, if it's not way expensive and it isn't bad for the battery to be driven short distances frequently, I'd be very tempted, as one does not know what the future brings.

Shallow cycles are better for the battery than deep cycles, but you might miss out on opportunities to balance if you charge to less than Standard. I usually keep the SOC around 50% and top up to Standard on weekends when I need more range. My CAC is still at 155 after four years and balancing isn't an issue.

I'm hoping Tesla implements a charge slider in the new firmware. The extra range will mean there's less need to fully charge, and I'd prefer to keep the SOC closer to 50% for longevity.

 

[scaesare]

Thanks to this post, I now have the factors I was looking for, so thanks to @scaesare for beating the dead horse just a little longer to catch me up to speed on where we're at.

Umm... thanks... I think?

 

[Jackyche]

When I had to get my bumper replaced, I believe it was $500 for a plain unpainted one which was very reasonable.. There were some painting costs but that's with the body shop.

Now, can anybody show me a Tesla part that is sold by Tesla for cheap? Just one will suffice. Didn't think so. This upgrade is going to cost $$$$$. A Model S door handle costs $2k for goodness sake.

 

[stevejust]

Umm... thanks... I think?

Yes, seriously. Thanks!

 

[tomsax]

There's great info on best charging practices for the Roadster on this thread:

Tesla Roadster Battery Care

I suggest the discussion of general charging habits and tips be moved over there.

 

[Doug_G]

And they have been...

 

[bobinfla]

Some of you guys are in fantasy land.

The Roadster isn't going to be able to supercharge-Ever!

Now that we got that out of the way, Tesla offered the Roadster replacement packs for $12k paid 7 years in advance, when they were hurting for cash. This was a very limited offer, when they were hurting for cash. Did I mention they offered this deal only when they were hurting for cash?

Now, can anybody show me a Tesla part that is sold by Tesla for cheap? Just one will suffice. Didn't think so. This upgrade is going to cost $$$$$. A Model S door handle costs $2k for goodness sake.

I am happy to report I found out yesterday that the actuator for the trunk opener is only $24. I think I am going to have that receipt framed.

 

[JST]

This is so much more black and white than everyone is making it to be. Tesla, same as all other auto manufacturers, is in the business of selling NEW cars and has ZERO obligation to invest any money into old models aside from keeping them running during warranty and providing for parts thereafter. Any investment of time and resources into a car that has already been sold is at a loss and those dollars are much better invested into future products. Tesla is only obligated to make an original spec battery available to us and no more. Everything else they have done is a blessing whether you think they have gone far enough or not. Even if supercharging was possible it would be a losing proposition for them to invest into making it happen. This complaining is getting absurd. It is like saying that Apple should upgrade the battery and lightning adaptor in your old iPhone so it has current technology... No, buy a new one.

Of course this is all true, but Tesla is also a fairly small company (still) run by an outsize personality for whom "logic" sometimes takes a back seat to desire and inspiration. That's not a bad thing!

I'm not arguing that Tesla will or should do supercharging for the Roadster--and if I were, it wouldn't matter, because I don't get any say in the matter. I'm just observing that the question of whether the company would do something like that is a little more complicated than it may appear.

What's the publicity benefit of demonstrating a commitment to upgrading?

What's the supply chain benefit of simplifying parts?

Is there anything that could be learned (and sold) to someone else about converting an existing EV to use supercharging?

But, most importantly, does Elon want to do it?

 

[Mitrovic]

For me the important thing now is: When will we know what the pricing will be. What do you think, when will tesla communicate the price of the upgrades?

 

[sethr]

This upgrade is going to cost $$$$$.

I am still hoping it will be inexpensive. Look at all the upgrades given at no charge to Model S owners!

For me the important thing now is: When will we know what the pricing will be. What do you think, when will tesla communicate the price of the upgrades?

I think it will be after the reveal in the next few weeks when they do the S.F. to L.A. run, assuming details are given at that time (by details I mean what cells are being used, what warranty will attach, photos of the aero changes and so on). Certainly before anyone makes an appointment to get the upgrade, so by this spring.