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I read the website earlier, but checking again just now and it resolves to the main Tesla website. Perhaps it's down while they edit/update it.
Arnold Panz
Model Sig 304, VIN 542
My pleasure! Although I am much happier when I'm reading posts about engineering issues I don't really understand instead of stories about Tesla in court. :smile:
All true, but most "reality" TV is scripted and fake, and there are innumerable examples of that both in the US and presumably in the UK. As long as Top Gear is presented as an "entertainment" show and not a "news" show, I think any case brought against Top Gear is a bigger hill to climb. The strategy of going after the BBC for broadcasting it (repeatedly) and selling DVDs is much smarter because they are held to a higher standard than the producers of Top Gear, even if it's not quite as satisfying as putting the Top Gear guys in their place.
BTW, I've never seen this show (other than now watching the Roadster clip), but they're clearly typical reality show buffoons, which ironically makes it more difficult to sustain a libel case against them because their effective defense is, essentially, "We're idiots! Who would take anything we say seriously?"
Norbert
TSLA will win
The first time I saw it, even though I followed a link from here, and although I did immediately think that pushing the car into the hangar was staged, I also thought that *some*thing must have actually gone wrong with both Roadsters, even though the way it was presented was obviously making "fun" of the situation. And as several here have pointed out, many people they talked to, still think that behind the fun there was serious failure.
As far as I'm concerned, reading Tesla's latest info, and the claim, made the case that the misleading nature was yet a level worse than what I remember from reading about it here, and from Robert Llewellyn's videos.
Of course I'm not questioning the legal rationale of going after the BBC's broadcasting instead of TopGear's show making (and after all, the re-broadcasting/distribution can be stopped, while the show is already in the box).
I just read here that the BBC intends to fight the case, so I'm glad you are saying Tesla is in a good position.
There was a failure. Two actually. One was they blew the fuse that went to the vacuum pump for the brake booster. Supposedly this was a quick fix. But Clarkson described it as "the brakes broke," which sounds a lot worse than they blew a fuse (though still perhaps accurate).
The other "failure" was the power was limited due to the motor overheating. This is a legitimate complaint since it greatly compromises usability as a track car. However, it's not so much a failure since the car was behaving as designed. Still looking forward to a Roadster with a water cooled drive-train that you can properly track.
Norbert
TSLA will win
Yes, the brakes are what concerned me the most originally, however the brakes were actually fully functional and officially tested to be safe also without "power"- support, as far as I understand. That's not just a little detail, is it?
Although I hear what you are saying about reality show buffoonery, you must remember that several million men here take what they say as gospel. I'm sure it's the same many times over globally. This may be because it evolved from a serious car show.
Remember it recently won a best factual programme award.
Remember it recently won a best factual programme award.
BBC News responds: BBC - Newsbeat - BBC denies rigging Top Gear Tesla Roadster car race
Even here they don't get the facts straight.
What is also a bit wierd/suspicious about where they've put this story is that it's on the Newsbeat pages. That's the news spin-off of Radio 1 and hence aimed at the younger audience, precisely those who have shown more of an affinity for Tesla and EVs in general. Why not the main site BBC?
Even here they don't get the facts straight.
What is also a bit wierd/suspicious about where they've put this story is that it's on the Newsbeat pages. That's the news spin-off of Radio 1 and hence aimed at the younger audience, precisely those who have shown more of an affinity for Tesla and EVs in general. Why not the main site BBC?
Jaff
Active Member
Correct David...this nugget of self-serving showmanship will come back to bite them in the buttocks I think...
This also talks to the reason that they waited 2 years. If the matter had disappeared into history then Tesla might have let the story fade but, it didn't, it's repeatedly resurrected on re-runs and DVD.
Arnold Panz
Model Sig 304, VIN 542
I don't doubt the damage to Tesla -- as a complete coincidence someone mentioned to me just the day before this lawsuit that they wanted to get a Roadster at one point but then they saw the Top Gear episode and decided against it, so I'm almost surprised Tesla didn't try to gather a bunch of those stories to demonstrate financial damages. I assume that they didn't do so to make them appear more sympathetic in court -- i.e., that they are just being noble and not seeking money (also important because the Beeb is state-funded, so it would really be taxpayers paying Tesla for any monetary damages).
It's unfortunately not relevant that they won best "factual" programme (what an unfortunate name for an award!), it's still entertainment, and courts generally don't protect litigants from the fact that stupid people watch entertainment and take it as fact. The BBCs unwillingness to address these issues subsequently with rebroadcasts and the DVDs is really the heart of the case, and the strength of it, and hopefully that will carry the day.
Incidentally, I wouldn't put too much stock into the BBC's initial response -- that's standard operating procedure, but if I had to guess behind the scenes they are probably scrambling and investigating internally the charges (which they probably hadn't done before), and I'd be shocked if we didn't see a settlement of some kind in the next couple of months before even more embarrassing facts for them come out about just how staged the show is. Discovery can be a real bitch.
Jaff
Active Member
I disagree, but time will tell I guess.
I'm sure with the BBC awarding TG the "most factual award", TM would be arguing that the BBC is portraying TG to be more than just an entertainment show...to the effect of the BBC trying to raise the public perception of the show from that of entertainment to trusted reviewer / advisor by certifying it with this award...elsewise, what was the Beeb's purpose for giving TG award in the first place?
Regardless, it will be interesting to watch...
I'm sure with the BBC awarding TG the "most factual award", TM would be arguing that the BBC is portraying TG to be more than just an entertainment show...to the effect of the BBC trying to raise the public perception of the show from that of entertainment to trusted reviewer / advisor by certifying it with this award...elsewise, what was the Beeb's purpose for giving TG award in the first place?
Regardless, it will be interesting to watch...
To make sure that Tesla had a great case against them. They can hardly argue the show isn't factual when they gave them that award! Talk about low-hanging fruit!
Suggest you should forward any story of lost sales to Tesla. I think this is the crux of the reason they decided to act.
The way they thrash cars on the track I have NO DOUBT that TG test cars breaking down is a VERY COMMON occurrence. I have heard it mentioned in passing a few times on the show even casual mentions that a car needs to be replaced so the Stig can drive it, but they decided to make a story point of the Tesla issues. Just more to pile onto other EV FUD like using a boat windmill to charge the car and showing steam coming out of a power plant like it's emitting millions of automobile exhausts.
Oh I'm sure. They did their best to play up minor things to work in their predetermined narrative.
This article is worth a read:
Tesla vs. TopGear: Only Half Of The Story
Jaff
Active Member
Thanks for the clarification Andrew.
I think we need more data on who and what exactly the National Televison Awards are.
If they are a body with any credibility at all, then I think this will help TM in their action...I think it still speaks to the certification of TG's reputation as a trusted advisor / reviewer of automobiles on behalf of it's viewers.
I think we need more data on who and what exactly the National Televison Awards are.
If they are a body with any credibility at all, then I think this will help TM in their action...I think it still speaks to the certification of TG's reputation as a trusted advisor / reviewer of automobiles on behalf of it's viewers.
Past Winners - The National Television Awards 2011
Past "Factual Programme" winners:
Past "Factual Programme" winners:
- 2011 Top Gear
- 2010 Loose Women
- 2008 Top Gear
- 2007 Top Gear
- 2006 Top Gear
- 2005 Jamie's School Dinners
- 2005 Wife Swap
- 2003 GMTV ("Factual Entertainment Programme")
- 2002 Big Brother
- 2001 Big Brother
- 2000 Animal Hospital ("Factual Entertainment Programme")
- 1999 Animal Hospital ("Factual Entertainment Programme")
- 1998 Changing Rooms ("Factual Entertainment Programme")
- 1997 Animal Hospital ("Factual Entertainment Programme")
- 1996 Animal Hospital ("Factual Entertainment Programme")
- 1996 Animal Hospital
Norbert
TSLA will win
So far I'm getting the impression that the BBC and Clarkson may try to defend the statements in the show by finding various explanations and interpretations, rather than excuse them as obviously-fictional.
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