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OK here goes...Car is 100%, fully repaired...the loud noise I had when charging I surmise was parasitic voltage/current upsetting the contactors in the battery pack due to problems with the IGBT's shorting out on the heat sinks. (at least thats my theory)
From the stage of having everything separated it took quite a while to get the job finished.
Firstly you have to meticulously clean off the old insulation. You can carefully use a large screwdriver but be careful not to scratch the heat sink.
Next job is to separate the clamps, nuts, bolts and washes. Tesla had used some sort of clear Loctite or
similar that was quit hard to get off. There are also nylon spacers that need to be removed. All screws were cleaned and run up and down with the nuts until they were free. This was also quite time consuming. You have a total of 42 to clean up. I considered buying new ones but the size and the thread seemed unlike anything I could find in the local hardware shops...
At this point I checked my IGBT's with a multimeter to see if there was any shorts. None found.
Next I screwed in the studs with blue loctite. I did then up firmly but did not measure the torque.
Next I cleaned again with a soft brush to make sure there was absolutely no debris left whatsoever. Now these substrates are extremely fragile. They are like thin porcelain.
You will see - at least on my heat sinks - there were lines marked that matched exactly the same dimension of the substrates. I have marked the precise dimensions up thread.
I then cleaned the IGBT's with alcohol and removed any old insulation that was still present in the holes. Then a very light smear with heat sink thermal paste.
Now the fun and games start...
Gently lower the boards onto the substate - the aluminium oxide strips are very fragile
Fit the nylon sleeves.
Start to fit the clamps, washers and do up the nuts - very loosely! Put some loctite onto the now clean studs. I used 242.
VERY IMPORTANT
Now take the torque screw driver. The final torque setting we are after is 0.8 newton metres. Due to my impatience I broke 2 substrates. Luckily my supplier threw a few spares in for good measure. When you order yours make sure to get some spares because there is a chance you will break 1 or 2. You must follow this procedure if you want to be sure (and then not completely) not to break them.
I found going up in intervals of 0.05 newton metres each round of tightening. Start at the bottom and tighten each second nut to the set torque. Then repeat with the nuts that you missed and go around the board like this. Then set the next torque 0.05 N/M higher and start again. I broke mine around 0.2 N/M - it seems once I was passed 0.5 N/M there were no more noises.
OK next thread...10 photos max.
From the stage of having everything separated it took quite a while to get the job finished.
Firstly you have to meticulously clean off the old insulation. You can carefully use a large screwdriver but be careful not to scratch the heat sink.
Next job is to separate the clamps, nuts, bolts and washes. Tesla had used some sort of clear Loctite or
At this point I checked my IGBT's with a multimeter to see if there was any shorts. None found.
Next I screwed in the studs with blue loctite. I did then up firmly but did not measure the torque.
Next I cleaned again with a soft brush to make sure there was absolutely no debris left whatsoever. Now these substrates are extremely fragile. They are like thin porcelain.
You will see - at least on my heat sinks - there were lines marked that matched exactly the same dimension of the substrates. I have marked the precise dimensions up thread.
I then cleaned the IGBT's with alcohol and removed any old insulation that was still present in the holes. Then a very light smear with heat sink thermal paste.
Now the fun and games start...
Gently lower the boards onto the substate - the aluminium oxide strips are very fragile
Fit the nylon sleeves.
Start to fit the clamps, washers and do up the nuts - very loosely! Put some loctite onto the now clean studs. I used 242.
VERY IMPORTANT
Now take the torque screw driver. The final torque setting we are after is 0.8 newton metres. Due to my impatience I broke 2 substrates. Luckily my supplier threw a few spares in for good measure. When you order yours make sure to get some spares because there is a chance you will break 1 or 2. You must follow this procedure if you want to be sure (and then not completely) not to break them.
I found going up in intervals of 0.05 newton metres each round of tightening. Start at the bottom and tighten each second nut to the set torque. Then repeat with the nuts that you missed and go around the board like this. Then set the next torque 0.05 N/M higher and start again. I broke mine around 0.2 N/M - it seems once I was passed 0.5 N/M there were no more noises.
OK next thread...10 photos max.
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Once you have 0.8N/M on all your nuts the job is complete. BTW remember to use loctite on the nuts.
The tightening seems to be the most difficult. Its certainly stressful when you don't have any spares left and every noise you here makes you jump a mile.
Next is reassembly of the PEM just the reverse of the job up thread. It was very straight forward - again except where nylocs were used I used 242 loctite.
I have just taken the car for a drive - everything seems perfect - effectively the PEM seems to heat up quicker and also cool much quicker. After 6 months off the road (mostly due to me being located in another country) I am very relieved to have fixed this job for a few hundred €'s. Much better than 10K€ that Tesla wanted.
Any one wants any more info you can contact me.
Jonathan
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Beautiful and informative work Jonathan.
Did you use conductive thermal grease to seat your alumina substrates on the
heat sinks as you did for the IGBT-alumina inteface? Or did you you find that just the
pressure of the board was suitable.
The final torquing and potential substrate fracture must have been a bit unnerving.
Thanks for sharing the torque numbers you used.
It must be even more satisfying to drive the roadster than ever before!
Did you use conductive thermal grease to seat your alumina substrates on the
heat sinks as you did for the IGBT-alumina inteface? Or did you you find that just the
pressure of the board was suitable.
The final torquing and potential substrate fracture must have been a bit unnerving.
Thanks for sharing the torque numbers you used.
It must be even more satisfying to drive the roadster than ever before!
Mark77a
Member
@Jonathanm Thanks for your pioneering (brave) work. You are a Credit to this community, another huge step in dymistifying our cars and making DIY feasible.
It was a mixture of relief and pleasure. If this had not worked I'm not sure what I would have done...
There was no greater pleasure than to take it for a drive - and the amazing thing with the plug pulled for 6 months it had lost none of its km's (or very few) but I believe the depth of charge was less than indicated. Anyway after a range charge last night it was back to its old self this morning. It was covered in dust and had a good wash. Back on the road again now - my wife is very happy she can be driving this.
In answer to your question I just put thermal grease on the IGBT's and nothing on the substrate to heatsink. People who are smarter than me told me thats what I should do.
Thats why I purchased this car because I thought it could be DIY - in the end the problem with the PEM is not electrical - it is mechanical. So anyone can do it. It makes me wonder how many of these PEMS have been unnecessarily changed.
The one who really deserves a lot of the credit for this job is Daniel - he is guy who did the first one himself....
thefortunes
Active Member
Tesla has come back (as expected, but I'm disappointed) with a single option - replace the entire PEM.
No option to only replace the board that they say is "bad," or do it with a battery upgrade for a reduced cost.
I showed this thread to an electrical engineer here at work and he said "we can do that" so I may be undertaking the fix (our)self.
I'm sure the EE can source them, but where should we be getting the replacement insulating material and IGBTs (if necessary)?
Hi, IGBT's details, thanks to Daniels chasing up, is attached. I have also attached the specs of the Ceramic Aluminium Oxide insulation strips as well. Precise dimensions to have these laser cut further up thread. (I've included them here as well. Thanks to some photos from Daniel)
Attachments
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Hurrah.....I’m getting my Roadster back from Tesla UK on Tuesday!
From the photos they showed me the IGBT insulation had degraded on all poles, leading to the usual failure mode.
Although I was prepared and actually keen to do the repair, Tesla have replaced the entire PEM; we came to an arrangement for a number reasons particular to my circumstance that I cannot discuss here.
The main news is that the boards inside the PEM I received are new and not refurbished. Apparently there have been too many issues with refurbished units and so Tesla have decided to support us by assembling new boards. Mechanical items such as the case, heat sinks etc. are refurbished.
Tesla UK did not know if they had used higher quality insulation in the new boards (they would like to know the answer). However, it would seem to be inconceivable that this would not be addressed if they went to the bother of re-starting manufacturing to address failures due to a design oversight.
Perhaps someone in the US can get more info and verify this is all correct?
So, good news in terms of Tesla support even though the replacement PEM is expensive and the warranty too short.
BTW, with regards to battery upgrade only one of the PEM boards is replaced not the entire unit.
From the photos they showed me the IGBT insulation had degraded on all poles, leading to the usual failure mode.
Although I was prepared and actually keen to do the repair, Tesla have replaced the entire PEM; we came to an arrangement for a number reasons particular to my circumstance that I cannot discuss here.
The main news is that the boards inside the PEM I received are new and not refurbished. Apparently there have been too many issues with refurbished units and so Tesla have decided to support us by assembling new boards. Mechanical items such as the case, heat sinks etc. are refurbished.
Tesla UK did not know if they had used higher quality insulation in the new boards (they would like to know the answer). However, it would seem to be inconceivable that this would not be addressed if they went to the bother of re-starting manufacturing to address failures due to a design oversight.
Perhaps someone in the US can get more info and verify this is all correct?
So, good news in terms of Tesla support even though the replacement PEM is expensive and the warranty too short.
BTW, with regards to battery upgrade only one of the PEM boards is replaced not the entire unit.
supersnoop
Tesla Roadster #334
Do you have the part numbers for the 1.5 PEM? does it suffer from the IGBT insulation failure?
600 Volt, 50 kA
just looked it up this morning
Guys, its a plain old 10 ampere fuse. The 600 volt , 50,000 ampere rating is the maximum interrupting rating the fuse can withstand before exploding. But normally, if you draw more than 10 amps for an extended period of time, the fuse will blow. The 50,000 amp withstand rating in this application is meaningless.
DanielFriederich
Member
Congrats Jonatham. So glad your Roadster is back 2 live again
BTW: just ordered a visium carbon fiber glas hardtop
BTW: just ordered a visium carbon fiber glas hardtop
Do you mean the Visium tinted polycarbonate hardtop?
This one? Lotus Elise Exige Transparent Hardtop Basic - Roof - Other - Other Cars
Or this one? VISIUM - Lotus Elise S2
Neither of those uses “carbon fiber glas”.
DanielFriederich
Member
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