Roadster Sport RED vs WHITE Performance modes

[kgb]

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so keep on using "Performance" mode if it also speaks to you!
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Still love the car...

I agree. Everything we do to the car decreases its life expectancy. I bought the car to use and enjoy it. If "use" results in wear and tear, so be it. I was just passing on what my Tesla Ranger told me. That said, I found that I don't need "performance" mode quite as much as I did before. I used to put the car in performance mode immediately after turning the key, now I do it "some times," or "when the mood strikes me."

Yes, but we get to drive with the top off for a huge part of the year!

I agree with Doug_G, although I find it hard to believe we live in the same climate. I have the top off September - May, summer is just too hot, and the mesh top is just too expensive for an item I can't try out first. It has those big gaps where the window doesn't make a seal, the weather is hot here, I'm just not convinced yet that this is something I need.

 

[vfx]

- May, summer is just too hot, and the mesh top is just too expensive for an item I can't try out first. It has those big gaps where the window doesn't make a seal, the weather is hot here, I'm just not convinced yet that this is something I need.

If you ever come to LA you can meet with someone with a Mesh Top. The airy accessory has a 100 percent satisfaction guarantee if you would like a personal test run.

 

[NigelM]

Having followed this thread, I have been driving a couple of days using "Performance" mode and now I'm going to take my chances and disagree with Scott (even though I acknowledge he's much better at this technical stuff than I am!):

If the air temp at the PEM fan intake is 115F (46C) "performance" will always be red. The A/C does not cool the PEM. If the fourth blue bar is on for the PEM in the VDS temp screen, performance will always be "red"

My PEM is almost always on the 4th blue bar (not surprising given our summer climate) except maybe first thing in the morning after a night in the garage. However, the "red" only comes on briefly and then changes to "white" and stays like that. I asked my Service Ranger today and he said the few seconds it is on red (on my 2.5) is just a warning that I am about to effectively reduce my range. He also said that unless I really overheat the car (continuously heavy-footed in very hot conditions) there are no performance limitations.

The Service Ranger also showed me the neat trick of giving the key an extra 1/4 turn forwards which will put the car in "Performance" mode even while driving.

That said, "kgb" the good news is that we can drive with white "Performance" at temperatures over 90F. I was driving inland at 96-97F in white "Performance" mode this morning for about 90 minutes and got back home where we live by the ocean (note the elevation!) and it's a little cooler when I took this picture as proof:

 

[kgb]

If the air temp at the PEM fan intake is 115F (46C) "performance" will always be red. The A/C does not cool the PEM. If the fourth blue bar is on for the PEM in the VDS temp screen, performance will always be "red"

Just want to confirm that Scott451 is right again. I guess I wasn't using all my powers of observation. I could see the "red" performance on the VDS, but I failed to look for the performance limited light on the dash. I guess I assumed that it was on. Scott451 is right. The "red" performance correlates with the fourth (last) blue bar, right before the yellow. So, I guess my performance was not yet limited. So... uh, never mind... :wink:

 

[scott451]

Having followed this thread, I have been driving a couple of days using "Performance" mode and now I'm going to take my chances and disagree with Scott (even though I acknowledge he's much better at this technical stuff than I am!):

Do you have a sport model? (notice the word "sport" in the thread title :smile I believe the red performance only applies to the sport model. I don't have access to a 2010 non-sport in San Diego.

My PEM is almost always on the 4th blue bar (not surprising given our summer climate) except maybe first thing in the morning after a night in the garage. However, the "red" only comes on briefly and then changes to "white" and stays like that. I asked my Service Ranger today and he said the few seconds it is on red (on my 2.5) is just a warning that I am about to effectively reduce my range. He also said that unless I really overheat the car (continuously heavy-footed in very hot conditions) there are no performance limitations.

The 2.5 sport may have different temp limits. I'm picking up my 2.5 sport on 7/15 in Palo Alto! When I get home, I'll do an updated post with the numbers from the 2.5 [It turns out] that you don't have a sport model. [AFAIK. other than start up, you will never see red "performance" on a non-sport roadster]

 

[NigelM]

No Sport, just a 2011 2.5. If it's helpful, my Service Ranger also updated my firmware and said that the new one also had a better cooling cycle/management. As a further BTW, I can feel the difference in the Performance vs Standard driving modes, but it's not enough to make me want to drive in "Performance" mode on a regular basis. I'm happy to try out a few things for comparison though.

 

[NigelM]

OK, I admit that in earlier postings I didn't relate to the fact that this thread refers to the "Sport" model only. (Although having driven a Sport for a few days, I never felt enough difference for me to want to spend the extra money). Here's the latest experience however:

On the non-Sport 2.5 it is possible (contrary to what the Service Ranger told me) to be in Performance mode and for it to turn red and stay red. Today the outside temperature was 104F and I had 4 blue bars on the PEM and the battery and 3 blue bars on the motor. I tried out the Performance mode to see what the response was - it went red for a few seconds (as always) then turned white but immediately went back to red, and stayed red. All this was on the VDS and there was no other indicator on the dash. I decided that I didn't want to risk anything so I switched back to standard; all the time I didn't notice any change or difference in power or response.

AFAIK. other than start up, you will never see red "performance" on a non-sport roadster

Yes, you will. I have no idea what the trigger point(s) are. Previously at 4 blue bars on the PEM and 96F I was obviously below the trigger; today at 4 blue on the PEM and also 4 on the battery with 104F I was obviously above the trigger.

 

[smorgasbord]

I saw Performance Red on my non-Sport 2.5. I'm pretty certain it was because my battery SOC was on the low side, but I was busy thinking about other things at the time, so didn't take good notes.

 

[mpt]

Non-Sport or just 'Roadster'; does go red when the PEM temp increases but I don't think that we have the peak current to really push the car into 'Power Limited' on the dash (in normal road driving) but, and this is a guess that Scott could confirm, the torque is already 'limited' so no difference in torque in performance mode just the other benefits; higher battery charge level and ability to run the battery warmer.

As I think has been said before, the Sport is just* a regular Roadster with the ability to push the envelope when the PEM temp is under control.

Does a Sport in 'Standard' mode = a regular Roadster in Standard mode?

*I know, there are other differences in equipment/drivetrain, etc.

 

[scott451]

Non-Sport or just 'Roadster'; does go red when the PEM temp increases but I don't think that we have the peak current to really push the car into 'Power Limited' on the dash (in normal road driving) but, and this is a guess that Scott could confirm...

It's been on my todo list, but I don't have easy access to a non-sport 2.0 in San Diego. I'm in Palo Alto to pickup my new 2.5 tomorrow (7/15). I'm planning to meet up with other roadster owners on Saturday. I brought my data logger, so if I can get a ride in a 2.0 non-sport, I can post the plots pretty quickly.

 

[ggr]

...but I don't have easy access to a non-sport 2.0 in San Diego.

Sure you do... it's just in a different parking lot.

 

[S-2000 Roadster]

Does a Sport in 'Standard' mode = a regular Roadster in Standard mode?

I did a quick histogram on my Roadster 2.5, and it appears that the Sport in Standard Mode (265 ft-lbs) is the same as a Roadster in Standard Mode or RED Performance Mode. I have been able to reach 273 ft-lbs in WHITE Performance Mode, and there is also a spike at 265 ft-lbs, but the non-Sport does not seem to have a difference in torque between Standard Mode and RED Performance Mode. I'll have to do some more careful testing by driving under specific conditions so I can focus on just one part of the log file.

By the way, I discovered a huge peak in the histogram at 54.28 ft-lbs (73.596 N*m). I have no idea why that value would be so prevalent unless it's the limit in reverse. Even so, I'd be quite surprised if I've pushed reverse to the peak for that much time. It would be more obvious if my histogram were limited to a specific time range of the log.

 

[mpt]

I discovered a huge peak in the histogram at 54.28 ft-lbs (73.596 N*m).

Is that the torque limit at launch? The limit that exists until about 10mph is it?

 

[S-2000 Roadster]

I discovered a huge peak in the histogram at 54.28 ft-lbs (73.596 N*m).

This could be the maximum regenerative braking torque. I realize now that I was not checking the bit in the data which indicates the direction of power in or out of the ESS/motor. I'll run my histogram again with the full data and see what I find...

Update: Yes, the histogram peak at 54.28 ft-lbs is for regenerative braking. In one log, I have 1775 entries with that value, and 76 entries with the next lower value. There are a few spurious torque readings: 59, 63, 72, and 106 ft-lbs; but those only occur once each, so they don't seem significant.

There is no spike in the histogram for forward torque in that area - just normal readings as would be expected without special meaning for that torque level.

I will try to figure out whether there is any obvious torque limit at launch (that can be detected in the logs), and also continue looking for evidence that the non-Sport Roadster has any difference in torque between Standard Mode and RED Performance Mode.