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Rumor: Hybrid Power Train

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by kehlKroos, Dec 1, 2016.

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  1. kehlKroos

    kehlKroos Member

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    Model 3 dual model will use a new "hybrid " power train

    which will be much more efficient than S&X under urban test cycle
     
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  2. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    Can you give us any more details on what this "hybrid" power train is? Is it just more of a gearing difference between the front and back? (back geared to get things going, front geared to keep things going with minimal power?)
     
  3. kehlKroos

    kehlKroos Member

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    cannot say too much


    but it's related to motor
     
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  4. JoseBQ

    JoseBQ Member

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    Curious... because dual motor versions were meant to reduce consumption in highways due to different gear relations.

    I wonder what a pure EV hybrid version is.
     
  5. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

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    Well, *if* this hybrid rumor is correct, it likely means that Tesla has moved away from a pure induction motor design - there are some motor designs that have been described as hybrids between the most common motor designs.

    One possibility is that Tesla has decided to include permanent magnets in the motor, which allows for greater efficiency. I have my doubts Tesla has started using permanent magnets, though. Magnets use rare earth metals, they're expensive and fragile, they aren't easy to combine with high power and low weight.

    Another possibility is that Tesla has started using a switched reluctance motor or something similar. These don't use permanent magnets, but they are complex to control, and they aren't very powerful.

    It might even be possible to combine a standard induction motor with a high-efficiency PM-motor or SR-motor in the same casing on the same motor shaft. At low load the induction motor could idle while the high-efficiency motor provides power. Then when you need the power, boom, the induction motor kicks in.

    My guess would be that the Model 3 uses a standard induction motor, though. This is a low-cost, high-power solution with acceptable efficiency.
     
  6. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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  7. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    #7 JeffK, Dec 2, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2016
    Any sources for this supposed rumor?

    Tesla has two hybrid systems with regards to their patents surrounding the drive train. The first is the dual motors torque sleep patent and the second is the older hybrid electrical system combining Li Ion and metal-air batteries in one vehicle for huge increases in range.

    Li-air are years away from being viable in my opinion (in an EV).
     
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  8. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Is this a reference to that Tesla patent for a battery pack that has two types of cells?
     
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  9. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    Maybe the 3 will have a small permanent magnet motor driving the front wheels for higher efficiency along with the standard induction motor for the rear wheels? Or a motor with a PM stage and an induction stage?

    I've never seen that done before, but it could have potential - PM that's small enough that normal cruising is always in the sweet spot performance range, then a bigger induction stage beside it to handle heavy acceleration and regeneration that you just switch off in cruise. Lots of extra complexity, but it would probably give higher efficiency, and not much more weight.
     
  10. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

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    I'll guess this hybrid is the two motor, AWD model.
    The car power demands dictate which (or both) motors are used.

    Anything more exotic would run counter to EM's promise to KISS this time around.
     
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  11. zenmaster

    zenmaster Member

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  12. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    Wind turbine! :p
     
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  13. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    I find this a plausible theory on what a hybrid motor in Model 3 might mean.

    I wonder if the hybrid part means e.g. a hybrid front motor (two technologies inside one motor) - or merely different technologies used in the two motors (rear different than front). Both seem plausible.

    That, or Elon has finally seen light and went all out with an ICE PHEV... ;)
     
  14. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    Realistically we can not know what Elon meant when he said they'd keep Model 3 simpler this time. He might simply be referring to axing some wilder all glass roof/falcon wings/monopost rear seats type of things that made Model X so hard to build. He may have just meant they chose a more traditional design as the production car.

    It does not necessarily mean anything regarding the drivetrain. Tesla certainly has a history of making both their batteries and drivetrains more and more complex (e.g. see D, the 100 battery and Ludicrous mode for example) to keep evolving them. Creating a new type of motor certainly could range from a simple change to a big change, really.

    Also, note, the rumor is about the dual motor version. Keeping the single-motor version non-hybrid would allow for a more KISS approach there and then upsell a bit more complex one with a pricier hybrid dual-motor.
     
  15. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    "If you don't hear a rumour by 10:00 make up one."

    -Canadian Army saying
     
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  16. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    Historically, a lot of rumors posted on TMC have turned out to be correct in the end. This was definitely the case with Model X where a lot of stuff was known thanks to leaksters (but not always believed, unfortunately).

    While this one could be false, it is by no means certain. The simplest answer would be, someone with a source under NDA spilled a bean...
     
  17. Twiglett

    Twiglett Single pedal driver

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    Hey don't joke with stuff like that - at least one person on here thinks that a wind turbine provides some form of "free" energy when fitted to a car :D
     
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  18. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Yeah, be careful there, or you end up with something like this:
     
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  19. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    You mean to tell me this doesn't really work?
    Strap This Wind Turbine To Your Electric Car and You Can Drive Forever

    It was on Gizmodo, so they must know what they're talking about, right? :eek:o_O:p
     
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  20. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    Oh, my. I guess when those lead-acid batteries run out of juice, the two of them can get out out and push the car. If they run really, really fast, they might be able to get the rotors to spin and generate a minuscule amount of electricity to recharge the batteries an even more minuscule amount.
     
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