Russia/Ukraine conflict

[stopcrazypp]

But can't they just work around this by applying throttle gradually at take off instead of going 100% from the get go?...

And as I understand it, the F-16 can be equipped with a drag chute, so wouldn't that decrease the need for thrust reversers significantly? Or possibly even eliminate it completely? Does the F-16 even have thrust reversers? Or maybe there is no risk for FOD ingestion until the speed decreases significantly when landing (if they have and use thrust reversers)... So again... Seems to be plenty of possible workarounds...

EDIT: The F-16 doesn't seem to have thrust reversers. See below.

Interesting discussion about FOD. I previously assumed F-18 is thought more suitable due to twin engines and a more robust landing gear, but never considered the FOD problem. The articles linked make it sound like any airfields must be pristine for F-16 to take off or land, with concern it would be too easy for Russia to find where they are operating simply by monitoring which roads Ukraine has made special preparations for.

I'd like to remind people it's not unprecedented for F-16s to take off and land on highways. Taiwan recently showcased that capability:

Ready for Takeoff: Taiwan's Highways Can Host F-16 Fighting Falcons

Taiwan's air force recently demonstrated that its fighter jets can take off and land from unconventional runways.

nationalinterest.org

Maybe some of the ones here that follow fighter jets can spot if there were any special modifications or things to note on the planes or highway.

I tried looking and none of the English media detailed any preparations beforehand (as it relates to FOD or other prep). Had to search Chinese language media which says they actually repaved the road in 2019 to ensure it would be smooth and there would be no hiccups due to road wear (Google translate):
"Military personnel pointed out that the preparations before the take-off and landing of fighter planes should not be sloppy, because the road surface of the expressway is depleted every day. In order to ensure the safety of the exercise, the road surface has been re-paved in cooperation with the Highway Bureau of the Ministry of Transportation. Since the take-off and landing of the aircraft is a "heavy landing", in order to avoid doubts about flight safety, the laying standards must meet the take-off and landing standards."

æ¼¢åæ¼ç¿5æç»å ´ 空è»æ°æ©éè¿åéæ°åéèµ·é | æ¿æ²» | éé»æ°è | ä¸å¤®ç¤¾ CNA

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www.cna.com.tw

I suppose that would be a red flag to Russia if the roads have to be repaved. It could also be possible for Ukraine to randomly repave roads to keep Russia guessing. Or perhaps we are worrying too much and F-16 either tolerates rougher roads than we expected or Ukraine is planning to fly them out of fields that might be known to Russia, but protected enough that it might not be a concern.

 

[madodel]

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy delivers surprise commencement speech to Johns Hopkins

Any ideas why President Zelenskyy spoke (albeit virtually) at the Johns Hopkins commencement?

 

[nativewolf]

One thing is for sure...Ukraine has not had a history of asking for something that doesn't work. From himars to humvees to javelins.

 

[Ogre]

Late to this whole F16 dirt airfield debate, but I'm a little confused why they would ever launch from unimproved airfields. I would expect Ukraine would keep them near military bases which have strong air defenses, not near the front where they would be most vulnerable.

 

[SmokyPeat]

Late to this whole F16 dirt airfield debate, but I'm a little confused why they would ever launch from unimproved airfields. I would expect Ukraine would keep them near military bases which have strong air defenses, not near the front where they would be most vulnerable.

Exactly. They won't be launching from some sandlot. Ukraine is fully capable of constructing and maintaining adequate airstrips. It's not rocket science (of which they are also quite capable). If these countries can support the F-16, then so can Ukraine:

F-16 user countries include Bahrain, Belgium, Denmark, Egypt, Greece, Indonesia, Israel, Netherlands, Norway, Pakistan, South Korea, Poland, Portugal, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, Turkey, USA, Venezuela.

 

[iPlug]

Additionally, Ukraine may be the world record holder in repairing/repaving bomb holes. Unfortunately, they have lots of experience. Last year they were repairing damage in a few hours. Don't see why they would have problems keeping air strips in good condition.

 

[Ogre]

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy delivers surprise commencement speech to Johns Hopkins

Any ideas why President Zelenskyy spoke (albeit virtually) at the Johns Hopkins commencement?

Money.

Plus just getting more sympathetic ears and eyes on Ukraine.

 

[BitJam]

Exactly. They won't be launching from some sandlot. Ukraine is fully capable of constructing and maintaining adequate airstrips. It's not rocket science (of which they are also quite capable). If these countries can support the F-16, then so can Ukraine:

F-16 user countries include Bahrain, Belgium, Denmark, Egypt, Greece, Indonesia, Israel, Netherlands, Norway, Pakistan, South Korea, Poland, Portugal, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, Turkey, USA, Venezuela.

IIRC, the US was able to quickly repair bombed airfields (like Henderson Field) during WW2. Granted, modern jets require much better fields but the USAF has improved their repair techniques.

Airmen ready to rapidly repair runways

Whether from a natural disaster or an enemy attack, when a runway is damaged, a dedicated team of civil engineers rapidly spring into action to make that landing strip usable.Known as a rapid runway

www.af.mil

Master Sgt. Kevin Donovan, team chief, said his team uses a combined day and night shift to get the job done. They can get the craters filled in one hour and 58 minutes, 10 minutes off the Air Force record, officials said.​

 

[Ogre]

Additionally, Ukraine may be the world record holder in repairing/repaving bomb holes. Unfortunately, they have lots of experience. Last year they were repairing damage in a few hours. Don't see why they would have problems keeping air strips in good condition.

I'll take your word for it since Plugging holes is your raison de ton nom.

 

[MC3OZ]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1661720194673156097

Snort

Seems like the drones need more practice.

 

[Ogre]

Seems like the drones need more practice.

Depends I guess if it used a shaped charge or just a big bomb.

They are certainly keeping the Russian Navy on their toes which is impressive since Ukraine has no real navy at this point.

Also... aside from what looked to be some low caliber rounds, looks like the drone just strolled right in there. I'd have expected much heavier countermeasures.

 

[wdolson]

Any reason why the Ukrainians wouldn't have done the exact same thing?...

The Soviet planes they inherited didn't need the pristine conditions the American jets.

It seems that we are going to find out what the F-16 will be able to do in Ukraine...

Seems rather interesting to me. Don't think the F-16 has been up against something like this before...

As far as I know it hasn't. When they have gone to war they have always flown from pristine air bases a long distance from the combat zone. The US also has extensive air refueling capability so the fighters can fly very long distances to target if need be. If NATO was drawn into the war they could operate all their aircraft from western Europe with little trouble. The Navy aircraft will be flying from the Mediterranean.

Are you really linking to Eurasiantimes articles to back up you're skepticism of F-16s usefulness to Ukraine? You're wrong on this issue, and you might as well back off from the F-16 bashing. This will be readily apparent when Ukraine begins making good use of them.

Not the greatest news source, but this article was congruent with the Twitter thread posted yesterday.

Additionally, Ukraine may be the world record holder in repairing/repaving bomb holes. Unfortunately, they have lots of experience. Last year they were repairing damage in a few hours. Don't see why they would have problems keeping air strips in good condition.

The ground conditions for the F-16 need to be far more pristine than just about any other combat aircraft in the world.

In WW II the US found itself flying out of airstrips hacked out the jungle in the Pacific. My father was flying out of some of those strips.

Early in the war the US sent whatever was available and even moderately combat ready to the Pacific. At the time the only field in New Guinea in allied hands was at Port Morseby. This was a pre-war airfield that was under expansion and was probably one of the best outside Australia. Two US medium bombers were sent, the B-25 and B-26. The B-26 had some advantages, it was faster and it could carry a slightly larger bomb load.

The B-26 was called the widow maker because the early versions were hard to fly and it had dangerous stall characteristics. The B-26 was more of a cutting edge design. In the Pacific the B-25 thrived. It was easy to maintain on rough airfields and handled the Martsen Mat runways just fine. The B-26 was much more difficult to maintain in rough conditions and the propellers had such small clearance with the ground that people quickly learned to get out of the way when they were taxiing. The propeller tips had a tendency to catch small rocks and fling them at high speeds to the sides of the aircraft.

A B-26 in the Pacific was also almost the coffin for future president Lyndon Banes Johnson. He was on a Congressional junket to the South Pacific and he went on a ride along mission with some of the other people on the junket. The B-26 he initially chose to ride in had the jump seat occupied so he had to pick another plane. His first pick was lost on the mission with all aboard.

The Curtiss P-40 fighter was out classed by everything else in the allied inventory by mid-943, but it stayed in production until late 1944 because it was the best USAAF fighter for operating from these primitive air strips. It was very reliable and could be easily maintained in the most primitive conditions. The P-38 began to replace the P-40 because of its immense range, but it was a hanger queen out in the field. Readiness levels for the P-38s was never as high as it was for the P-40s which did remain in service in the Pacific for field defense. A relative handful of P-47 Thunderbolts that made it to the SW Pacific also performed well, but those planes ended up prioritized for Europe so only a couple of squadrons operated them for about a year.

Some aircraft are not suited to flying from rough airfields and others are.

I am concerned that either the F-16s will be kept grounded due to constant attacks on the fields or operational losses are going to be high. I suspect the latter because the Ukrainians will likely be aggressive about flying despite airfield conditions.

 

[nativewolf]

Speculation abounds that Ukraines strategy at the moment is to wipe out barracks close to airports...so going after pilots/crew instead of airframes. more booom tonight Berdyansk. Taking out air assets is pretty much classic shaping in this day and age.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1661827604649766913

Also EU getting closer to moving Russian assets to Ukraine. I don't have good source data just twitter blurbs but I am sure our EU colleagues can post the details of this.

As others may have noted Sweden will train pilots on the Gripen. Well done Sweden, well done.

 

[madodel]

Some info on the ship that may or may not have been damaged by a drone as well as Prigozhin saying most of Wagner are pulling out of Bakhmut.

 

[Ogre]

Some info on the ship that may or may not have been damaged by a drone as well as Prigozhin saying most of Wagner are pulling out of Bakhmut.

I posted a thread about Wagner pulling out a few days ago. Confirms a lot of the conjecture around that. Sounds like Wagner is relocating almost entirely to Jordan where they are making large amounts of money.

I’ve also heard rumors that Wagner has been coaching new recruits to go to Africa rather than Ukraine for months now.

What this means is that the only military organization which has been remotely effective against Ukraine in the past 9 months is going away.

Good news for Ukraine. Bad news for Jordan.

 

[RobStark]

Good news for Ukraine. Bad news for Jordan.

The only time I have read of Wagner working for rebels/non-government actors has been in Chad.

If Wagner is in Jordan to support King Abdullah II that is probably a good thing. As any alternative to King Abdullah II is probably much much much worse.

Especially when the alternative is fighting the Ukrainian Army.

 

[Unclepaul]

Thought the idea of using prisoners to deploy to the front lines was pretty clever.

 

[Ogre]

Thought the idea of using prisoners to deploy to the front lines was pretty clever.

How many of them were political prisoners or unjustly imprisoned?

 

[RobStark]

How many of them were political prisoners or unjustly imprisoned?

From what we have read they were prisoner volunteers.

They volunteered in exchange for a pardon/freedom if they fought for 6 months in Ukraine.

When word got back to the prisons that almost no one actually got to 6 months and a pardon volunteers dried up. A handful of prisoners received a pardon. Probably because they paid a massive bribe. And did not actually fight in Ukraine.

It seems the Kremlin didn't try to force prisoners into soldiering in Ukraine. The results would probably have been much worse than actual results.

 

[wdolson]

From what we have read they were prisoner volunteers.

They volunteered in exchange for a pardon/freedom if they fought for 6 months in Ukraine.

When word got back to the prisons that almost no one actually got to 6 months and a pardon volunteers dried up. A handful of prisoners received a pardon. Probably because they paid a massive bribe. And did not actually fight in Ukraine.

It seems the Kremlin didn't try to force prisoners into soldiering in Ukraine. The results would probably have been much worse than actual results.

I think @Ogre was asking if many of these people were in prison because of trumped up charges or because they were political prisoners. There are real criminals in Russian prisons, but a lot of people don't deserve to be there.