Russia/Ukraine conflict

[heltok]

Some good news for Ukraine:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1757294548634542495

https://twitter.com/x/status/1757287830169014418

 

[Quagmire2]

Elon is not arguing that Ukraine should surrender and become Russia. He is arguing that peace talk should be held and some concessions be made, for example let Russia keep Crimea and Donbas. Peace sucks and is totally unfair. But he thinks letting the war go on another year, no progress have been made or worse Russia has gained more ground and then have to make the same decision sucks even more.

Going back to 2014 borders would be the bare minimum for successful peace talks.

Any further concessions like Russia keeps the land they took in this invasion is a non-starter.

 

[madodel]

No he's not, otherwise he wouldn't be discriminating against Tesla who is literally the only western company building BEVs at scale. Biden wanted to kneecap Tesla by giving more IRA incentives to unions, only Manchin's intervention saved Tesla from being discriminated.

All legislation in the US has to be written by the House or Senate and has to get either the Speaker of the House to bring it up or a majority in the House and 60 votes in the Senate to just get a vote. That is why it is almost impossible to get legislation passed now even the support of Ukraine which most legislators want but refuse to vote for out of fear of their own party. But yes Biden supports unions even though a lot of their union members vote for self extermination.

 

[friit]

Elon is not arguing that Ukraine should surrender and become Russia. He is arguing that peace talk should be held and some concessions be made, for example let Russia keep Crimea and Donbas. Peace sucks and is totally unfair. But he thinks letting the war go on another year, no progress have been made or worse Russia has gained more ground and then have to make the same decision sucks even more.

How do you understand the logic of peace talks to work?

If one side is stronger, they will not want to stop. Russia is stronger than Ukraine. Ukraine evens the odds with some help from allies, but doesn't get strong enough to win outright.

Now, major ally stops helping -> Russia gains the advantage -> peace?

 

[madodel]

How do you understand the logic of peace talks to work?

If one side is stronger, they will not want to stop. Russia is stronger than Ukraine. Ukraine evens the odds with some help from allies, but doesn't get strong enough to win outright.

Now, major ally stops helping -> Russia gains the advantage -> peace?

The Jews, the Roma, the Socialists, the homosexuals and others got eternal peace thanks to the deals worked out between Germany and its weaker opponents in 1939.

 

[Tiger]

Here's Tucker actually telling the truth about the Russian Dictator back in ~2006 when he was working for MSNBC. Fast forward to 01:50:

What was the saying about irony again?

 

[Skotty]

The Elon argument about Ukrainians dying is stupid. If the Ukrainians want to defend their homes to the very last one of them, so be it. Russians are the aggressors; they are threatening Europe and our allies; they would like to see America's downfall. If the Ukrainians want to negotiate peace, so be it. If they want to defend their homes and keep fighting, we should support them.

As for Elon's behavior and the company he keeps -- yeah, maybe he's being influenced. But it's still all so bizarre. Just like Republicans not wanting to defend against Russian aggression, which is equally bizarre; I guess just because Democrats were for it, Republicans knee jerk react that they will just have to be against it now. Wouldn't want to actually agree on something. At the same time, it's Elon, and maybe it's all just his crazy plan to try to gain universal acceptance of EVs by hanging with the most EV unfriendly right-wingers.

 

[Artful Dodger]

for example let Russia keep Crimea and Donbas.

Well they can't have Crimea, they're lobbing missiles at Odesa. Grain terminals are their enemy.

 

[jerry33]

Elon is not arguing that Ukraine should surrender and become Russia. He is arguing that peace talk should be held and some concessions be made, for example let Russia keep Crimea and Donbas. Peace sucks and is totally unfair. But he thinks letting the war go on another year, no progress have been made or worse Russia has gained more ground and then have to make the same decision sucks even more.

That would work if Putin keeps his word. He's been shown to not keep it. Give him a couple of years to regroup and he'll invade again. After all, this is the second time he's invaded after he broke his word once.

 

[Tiger]

IMO a lot of Elon's extremist opinions these days are originating with the company he is keeping. Emotionally he's 13. He wants to belong to the cool kid's clique and his "friends" are using him for their own ends.

I'm hoping he's doing it only to double his customer base knowing in reality any publicity is good publicity.

 

[navguy12]

• Moscow has put the Estonian prime minister, Kaja Kallas, and other Baltic states officials on a wanted list, as Tallinn warns of an imminent Russian military buildup along its border. The Russian foreign ministry spokesperson, Maria Zakharova, said the Estonian state secretary, Taimar Peterkop; the Lithuanian culture minister, Simonas Kairys, and Kallas were accused of “destroying monuments to Soviet soldiers”, a reference to the removal of Soviet-era second world war memorials.
• Estonia’s prime minister Kaja Kallas said on Tuesday she would not be silenced and continue her strong support to Ukraine after Russian police put her on a wanted list. She said: “I will continue my strong support to Ukraine. I will continue to stand for increasing Europe’s defence.”

Russia-Ukraine war live: Zelenskiy hails US Senate vote on Ukraine aid – as it happened

Ukrainian president says bill envisaging $61bn in aid brings a 'just peace’ closer, but it still faces opposition in the Senate

www.theguardian.com

 

[navguy12]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1757298038035431626

 

[Tiger]

Elon is not arguing that Ukraine should surrender and become Russia. He is arguing that peace talk should be held and some concessions be made, for example let Russia keep Crimea and Donbas. Peace sucks and is totally unfair. But he thinks letting the war go on another year, no progress have been made or worse Russia has gained more ground and then have to make the same decision sucks even more.

Russia will only regroup and attack again after "peace deal". So why give Russia a breather? In your lifetime, or our children's.

This war is eventually about grinding Russia to the ground, preferably Balkanization. It is the only lasting solution.

 

[Skotty]

Speaking of lasting solutions, my hope for Russia is based on interviews I've seen. While it is still somewhat anecdotal, it seems the older Russians represent the emperialist conquerors who think all others should bow down before their greatness or die. Meanwhile, younger Russians seem more rational, thoughtful, and empathetic. There is a lasting peace to be had with Russia once their close minded hateful elders are gone.

 

[UkNorthampton]

Russia will only regroup and attack again after "peace deal". So why give Russia a breather? In your lifetime, or our children's.

This war is eventually about grinding Russia to the ground, preferably Balkanization. It is the only lasting solution.

Russian Federation is different from Russia.

Dozens or hundreds of downtrodden nationalities. Russians are primarily located in a few areas/cities.

A lot of the mineral rich areas are not primarily Russian.

Russian Federation splitting is just a natural continuation of USSR splitting.

 

[stopcrazypp]

That would work if Putin keeps his word. He's been shown to not keep it. Give him a couple of years to regroup and he'll invade again. After all, this is the second time he's invaded after he broke his word once.

Yep, this was brought up before a long time ago for the previous "peace plan". And like the first go, that's Ukraine's decision to make. We should be fully supporting them before and after they make such a decision. If we pull support to "force" them to a ceasefire, you would have to be fairly naive to not see that Russia will just use this as a chance to overrun Ukraine.

 

[friit]

Russia-Ukraine war live: Zelenskiy hails US Senate vote on Ukraine aid – as it happened

Ukrainian president says bill envisaging $61bn in aid brings a 'just peace’ closer, but it still faces opposition in the Senate

www.theguardian.com

Strangely they didn't put Kallas on their wanted list because of her staunch support of Ukraine, but for removing a Soviet era monument from Eastern-Estonia, right next to the Russian border. The monument was of an invading T-34 tank on a pedestal with the barrel pointing towards the capital, Tallinn. Yeah, no thanks.

 

[DanCar]

It is not up to Elon or Trump to decide for Ukraine what is best. It is up to Ukraine to decide its destiny.
What would have happened during world war 2 if U.S. decided to make peace with Hitler?
Or during the 8 year long revolutionary war if the king of France told the colonies to make peace with England?

 

[AudubonB]

....just musing about how the Kremlin might have responded were the Estonians merely to have swung that tank to have the barrel pointing toward Moscow....

 

[friit]

Russian Federation is different from Russia.

Dozens or hundreds of downtrodden nationalities. Russians are primarily located in a few areas/cities.

A lot of the mineral rich areas are not primarily Russian.

Russian Federation splitting is just a natural continuation of USSR splitting.

I support the sentiment, but the realities of a Russian break up would be way more complicated. Due to centuries of russification most of the regions are by now majority ethnic Russian, and the voiceless people have been denied any autonomy based on national identity.

Vlad Vexler does a decent job of explaining this here.