DanCar
Active Member
What do you think about that post? Or what is your reason for posting it?
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Russia/Ukraine conflict
- Thread starter amolina
- Start date
The problem is that you can't do a peace treaty with someone who will just invade again once war materials are built up. Just the same as Chamberlin's peace treaty with Germany. All you've done is increased the number of casualties before it's over.
Elon predicts a lot of things. He also predicted that blow things up in Crimea would start WW3.
I don't know how much more he has to get wrong before he realizes he's just not an expert on this subject. In fact his instincts are surprisingly bad.
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
- I have consistently been agreeing with Elon on this thread
- I only disagree with Elon on a few things such as living in a simulation
- It is a Tesla forum - you should know how your leader feels about it
- Centrist but wish there were a few pacifists on the left still so that I don't have to pipe up
- Want this thread to reflect the other side - comes with being a centrist perhaps
- Wanted peace earlier, now is difficult obviously with zero leverage
- Pointed out the danger of Trump coming many times - when a waste all of this will be
- Not usually very empathetic but struggle to think about the deaths on both sides - it is tragic beyond words
- Never an expert but haven't read this thread for months so really don't know any of the latest details now
Centrists and those proximally left and right of center are by a wide margin the most against the sort of (not a) peace plan that is/was proposed here and by Putin. Typically it is the far left and far right that support this Putin agenda (and the occasional disinformation international trolls).
Peace was not remotely an option earlier, that is 100% on Putin/Russia. Ukraine now has relatively more leverage, and the threat of Russia to other sovereign nations continues to diminish, so that is good. We need to do much more here to continue to move that needle.
Maybe you should read up on Neville Chamberlain and learn why appeasing murdering bullies doesn't work. Just a thought.
Surrender. The word you're looking for is surrender. I think it might be some quirk of the Russian language but what Putin just offered as a "peace" plan looks like nothing of the sort.
DanCar
Active Member
Not my leader by a long shot. What is the opposite of a leader? Someone you take anti direction from? That would be more correct.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
He's old school Tesla forum peeps. You can cut him a little slack 
He's a citizen of a country with a history that as much as any learned the error ofHe's old school Tesla forum peeps. You can cut him a little slack
appeasement of dictators.
NYT : Ukraine-Russia Peace Is as Elusive as Ever. But in 2022 They Were Talking.
www.nytimes.com
The elephant in the room that the NYT article omits is covered by Ukrainian Pravda:
www.pravda.com.ua
(I use Pocket app to read the NYT article)
PS: A NYT reader caught some clever editorials by the NYT on the actual peace agreement document
Ukraine-Russia Peace Is as Elusive as Ever. But in 2022 They Were Talking.
Representatives from the warring nations held peace talks in the early weeks of the Russian invasion. They fizzled. Documents from those talks show why any new ones will face major obstacles.
The elephant in the room that the NYT article omits is covered by Ukrainian Pravda:
Possibility of talks between Zelenskyy and Putin came to a halt after Johnsonâs visit - UP sources
IRYNA BALACHUK, ROMAN ROMANIUK — THURSDAY, 5 MAY 2022, 13:32
www.pravda.com.ua
(I use Pocket app to read the NYT article)
PS: A NYT reader caught some clever editorials by the NYT on the actual peace agreement document
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Tiger
Active Member
Elon meant this:
And the worst part is that any peace plan or ceasefire will allow Russia to regroup and restock and invade the first echelon of Nato countries next. Since it has learned that Nato does very little to defend. So there goes the "reduction in bloodshed" part of the rubber submarine plan.
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navguy12
Active Member
Elon is not my leader, nor does he have anything to do with this forum. He is simply CEO of the company that makes the car I drive.
But you are posting the rantings of someone who has become a right wing extremist.
There was zero leverage earlier too.
Putin's proposal for peace talks is outrageous and obviously insincere. They are put out there to sucker in low information people that Russia is serious about peace talks. Here are Russia's conditions:
- Russian state news outlet Tass reported that Russian President Vladimir Putin demands the complete withdrawal of Ukrainian troops from the territories of Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, after which peace negotiations can begin.
- Putin added that Moscow was committed to ensuring the “unhindered and safe withdrawal” of Ukrainian forces if Kyiv agrees to such a concession.
Elon may not believe he's pro-Moscow, but he is parroting the Kremlin's talking points. He is what the Russians call a convenient idiot.
Tiger
Active Member
On a side note, I don't believe people change that much over the course of their life. Power does not corrupt. It amplifies and reveals a leader's predispositional traits. Power attracts pathological personalities.
Bet TSLA
Active Member
I don't think it's bad instincts. I think he's just parroting the views of David Sacks, who has proven himself to be a serial moron. Maybe other fools too that he's decided are trustworthy. What I'm saying is that I don't think he imagines he knows much about the situation, but rather he has very poor judgment on who to trust regarding things he knows little about.
In short, I think (hope?) that rather than being stupid he just has poor judgment about some things.
@Bet TSLA is probably closer to the mark.
I read an article about gifted children some years ago that stuck with me. Frequently very gifted children have the understanding of complex subjects way beyond their years. But they are often stunted in other areas. For example their social and emotional development can be well behind their peers. This was written before we knew as much as we know now about the autism spectrum, but it also fits with people who have mild autism. They obsess about intellectual subjects and become extremely good at them, but they are blind to the nuances of social interactions.
The article went on to say that while some gifted kids do grow up and develop a healthy adult emotional maturity, others never do. Some years ago I had a girlfriend who was in the Triple Nine Society (sort of like Mensa but for the top 0.1% instead of the top 2%). She went to a Triple Nine gathering once and said it was bifurcated. Half the people there were well balanced, good social skills, had a successful career, etc. and the other half were awkward and often obnoxious people who were probably on the spectrum.
I've noted over the years of observing Elon that emotionally he's about 12-14. He's the geeky kid who got beaten up by all the cool kids at school. Over the last few years he's been befriended by some snake oil salesmen who have a political agenda. Elon has bought into their politics to be one of the cool kids, but he's being used by these people to push their toxic agenda.
Elon was super rich before these people started whispering in his ear and he wasn't behaving like a Bond villain. He's only gone down that route since they befriended him. There were other factors that made Elon more susceptible to their charm offensive too such as his battle with California during the pandemic and one of his kids announcing she was transgender and distancing herself from him.
They have manipulated Elon to such a degree that he is supporting a presidential candidate who frequently denigrates the product that made him one of the richest people in the world. He is literally voting against his best interests.
Tiger
Active Member
Yes, but also his gravitation towards these types of personalities might stem from his character, so it has perhaps always been him, petty, and often same rules don't apply to him as to others, reg. loyalty etc.
It's getting bit political here, but I trust the senate and congress will always make the rich (and themselves) richer while pandering to the rest, regardless who is at the helm. Remember, it's not like the king of sweden or king/queen of england makes a difference (yes I know the are not the same, but in a way they are, ceremonial too, look at biden, he's more or less incapacitated for sure, merely ceremonial).
Or - Elon could be trying to woo a segment of the political aisle that is skeptical of EV’s and is trying to break down some of the tribal Right/ Left and bifurcated media echo chambers we have constructed in our country.
Just as Michael Jordan famously said years ago: “Republicans buy sneakers too.”
I think it is better to win over skeptical customers through persuasion instead of mocking or ignoring them and then relying on heavy top down government mandates.
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